Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 20th, 2024

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Sorry to interrupt, Ms. Xavier, but I don't have much time and I would like to ask you another question. If you want to tell us more, I encourage you to send us your additional thoughts in writing.

My question is for you, Ms. Xavier, but it could also be for Ms. Drouin.

Personally, I've been a member of Parliament since 2015. We were told that a centre would be set up to deal with cyber‑attacks. This centre would support parliamentarians in the event of a cyber‑attack. However, it's now 2024, so almost 10 years later. I've never heard of any such centre.

Can you explain why we aren't told about the help or support that we could receive in these situations?

[Caroline Xavier]

We do have services available. They were implemented before the 2019 election. At the time, given the lessons learned from situations in other parts of the world, we wanted to ensure that candidates in the 2019 election, who might be future members of Parliament—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I wanted to know why we weren't informed. That was my question. It's great that these services exist. However, if we don't know that they exist, how are they supposed to help us?

Why weren't we informed? Who should have informed us? How should this have been done?

I've been here for 10 years and have only recently learned about these services.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Ms. Gill.

I already gave you the extra 30 seconds that I said I would give Ms. Gaudreau. However, I'll let Ms. Xavier give you a brief response.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you.

[Caroline Xavier]

At the time, we sent this information to all the caucuses and election agencies to pass on to their members. That said, we can always improve our way of communicating with everyone to ensure that the available services are provided.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Ms. Gill.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two minutes and 30 seconds. The floor is yours.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To the witnesses, thank you for appearing. I will apologize in advance. While your time is very valuable, I do want to make sure that I'm able to move a motion I've had on notice for quite some time.

With my time that's left standing, I would like to move the following motion. I gave notice of it previously. It may require a bit of a change due to timing. However, it reads as follows:

Given the recent findings of the NSICOP “Special Report on Foreign Interference in Canada’s Democratic Processes and Institutions”, the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs order the production of all relevant memoranda, briefing notes, emails, records of conversations, and any other relevant documents from departments and agencies, including the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and Communications Security Establishment Canada, concerning interactions with Conservative Party of Canada officials and representatives on the topic of foreign interference and its impact on the outcomes of the 2020 and 2022 leadership races, provided that:

(i) both agencies tasked with gathering these documents apply redactions according to the Access to Information and Privacy Act, and

(ii) these redacted documents be deposited as soon as possible, but not later than Sunday, June 23, with the clerk of the committee to be distributed to all members of the committee in both official languages.

May I speak to my motion? Okay.

I recognize that I had put forward this motion earlier, on June 11, so there may be a willingness to change (ii) in terms of the date to provide authorities with more time on the provision of the documents requested. I think it's extremely important, considering that we've all sat around this table and we've all talked about how incredibly important foreign interference is in terms of how it impacts not only this institution but also those of us who come into this institution and those who are the leaders we work with in all the given parties. I think it's important as part of that discovery and that investigation.

I'm sure my Conservative colleagues will agree, considering their passion on this issue of foreign interference and their wanting to get to the bottom of it. I'm sure they too, despite their leader's unwillingness to get the briefing and the security clearance—I think it's a mistake, but what have you—would want to get to the bottom of this. In all the conversations we've had, they've been very clear about how intent they are on getting to the bottom of this, so I think it's fair, considering my concerns around the NSICOP report, that we move forward.

I would also like to note that we were very clear that we abide by privacy legislation and that we ensure that the appropriate redactions are applied to respect that privacy, but I think it's important to go through this and pass this motion as I've put it forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Colleagues, I have a couple of things.

First, I'll let the witnesses go, if I have the blessing of the committee. We've exhausted the amount of time we have set forward for that. They have provided their services. I'm not sure we need them here for the business that we're about to undertake.

I'm looking around. I think I have consent.

Madame Xavier and Madame Drouin, thank you very much for being with us. We wish you a good summer. We'll look forward to reconnecting at some point in the future.

Colleagues, just give me a moment. I need to check something with the clerk.

Okay, colleagues, here's where we are. Ms. Mathyssen has moved her motion. We have to deal with that motion. I've asked for additional resources in order for us to be able to deal with that motion. However, the current resources that were provided to us have now run out. I need to suspend briefly in order for the clerk and the staff here to turn over the resources, at which point we will resume.

On the speaking list to address Ms. Mathyssen's motion, as it currently stands, I have Mr. Cooper. If there are other members, of course, let me know.

I'll now suspend and let the resources turn over. We will resume debate on the motion, with Mr. Cooper being the first speaker.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

I call the meeting back to order.

Colleagues, just given the time of year and the challenges that exist in finding additional resources, I'm going to suspend the meeting. That will alleviate the challenges we're facing right now.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can you just clarify? You're suspending until when and on what basis?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

I'm suspending on the basis that—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No. I'm sorry. For how long?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

That has to be worked out.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay, so we're not talking about an hour. We're talking....

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

We're going to see where that's going to go, but that's where we are.

Colleagues, the meeting is suspended.

[The meeting was suspended at 1:25 p.m., Thursday, June 20]

[The meeting resumed at 11:00 a.m., Thursday, September 19]

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Good morning, everybody. It is very nice to see you all.

It's great to be back.

I hope that everybody had a wonderful summer at home with friends, family and constituents. We have a lot ahead of us in terms of what's to come, but we have some business to tend to right off the bat.

I'm calling to order meeting 122 of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

This is a friendly reminder, as we've been away for a little bit, to please, for the benefit of our interpreters who are working hard on our behalf, make sure that your headsets are on the sticker that's been provided in front of you in order to avoid harmful feedback and other obstructions.

I'm going to just give a very brief explanation of where we are, why we are where we are and what we need to do to move forward.

Ms. Mathyssen put forward at the end of our last meeting, as you may recall, a motion that we did not deal with in terms of what the next steps would be. We were suspended at the end of that meeting. We have to get back into the conversation on Ms. Mathyssen's motion. However, there's a small technicality we have to deal with. Due to a date, which is now in the past, that was inserted into Ms. Mathyssen's motion, there's an admissibility issue. I have spoken with all parties and members in relation to this.

I believe I'm seeing that Ms. Mathyssen would like to speak to it. We'll see what you have to say, Ms. Mathyssen. That may very well get us moving this morning. I turn the floor over to you.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome back, everybody. I hope everyone had a good summer.

What I would like to do to clear things up in terms of this motion is to ask for unanimous consent to change the wording around that date. In part (ii), it will read, “these redacted documents be deposited as soon as possible or 30 days after the passing of the motion”. Then it would continue on so that, whenever we pass this motion, we won't have to continually change it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thanks, Ms. Mathyssen.

To explain to everybody what this means, Ms. Mathyssen has asked for unanimous consent to change the wording in relation to the date. Should that be accepted, we will then resume debate on her motion as amended.

I am looking around the room for unanimous consent. Are there any objections?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We have amended the motion to read as it did with the changes that Ms. Mathyssen just presented.

With that, Ms. Mathyssen, the floor remains yours if you'd like it, but I do see that Mr. Calkins would like to speak.

Just one moment, Mr. Calkins.

Ms. Mathyssen, do you have anything to add?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

No, I think that we should go back to our discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Mr. Calkins, you have the floor.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I believe Ms. Mathyssen offered the committee two options for the edit. Which one did the committee accept?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

I believe it was the one that said 30 days, but for clarity....

[A voice]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

That's how I interpreted it.

Mr. Calkins, I appreciate the clarification.

Does that work for everybody?