Evidence of meeting #13 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Good morning, everyone.
I call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 13 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.
The committee is meeting today to start its study on the inclusion of indigenous languages on federal election ballots.
Before getting into our business, I want to have the approval of the budget for the indigenous languages study. Are we all okay with approving that?
11:05 a.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
11:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
That's excellent.
Mr. Clerk, please continue providing us with lunch. If the chilly weather maintains, some have suggested that soup would be welcome, but we know it's not easy choosing a menu for this many people.
Ms. Idlout, MP for Nunavut, is joining our committee today, as well as Madam Gill and Mr. Schmale. Welcome to our committee.
I will remind all committee members, new and returning, that I would appreciate all comments being made through the chair. When they are not made through the chair, I tend to have to interrupt. I would prefer not to do that, because our meeting is a very important one, so please be mindful that all comments for everyone go through the chair.
Today we have Mr. Stéphane Perrault, the Chief Electoral Officer, and his officials.
Mr. Perrault has asked for some additional time to properly acquaint us with this issue. I think that is absolutely suitable.
Mr. Perrault, what I will do to minimize my comments is to ask you to introduce whoever is accompanying you today.
I will turn the floor over to you. Welcome to PROC committee.
11:05 a.m.
Stéphane Perrault Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Thank you, Madam Chair.
This morning I have with me Anne Lawson, deputy chief electoral officer, regulatory affairs; Monsieur Michel Roussel, deputy chief electoral officer, electoral events and innovation; and Madame Karine Morin, who is my chief of staff and responsible for languages issues in the agency.
Let me start by saying that improving services in indigenous languages is, in my view, an important aspect of offering a more inclusive electoral process and reducing barriers for indigenous electors. More fundamentally, I believe that it is part of reconciliation. Although we currently offer information products in several indigenous languages, we are working to improve our processes and service offering. This includes the consideration of indigenous languages on the ballot and on a range of information products that can be made available at the polls.
Before considering changes to the federal ballot, it is important to understand the existing legal and operational ballot production regime. The design and content of the ballot is set out in some detail in the Elections Act, including a schedule that contains a visual image.
These requirements relate not only to language, such as the use of the Latin alphabet and the alphabetical ordering of candidate names, but also physical characteristics, such as a counterfoil and a stub, with lines of perforations separating them. These special characteristics mean that current ballots can be printed only by a relatively limited number of suppliers, and are printed and distributed within a very tight time frame.
While the name of the candidate may be in any language using a Latin alphabet, candidates must provide proof of identification when they are nominated, and this name is then used on the ballot.
For political parties, the party name appears on the ballot in the language the party chooses. There is no requirement for a party to have a bilingual name. Currently, there are three parties that have a name only in French, and one uses an English-only name. These names are not translated on the ballot.
Under the Act, the ballots must be printed in the very narrow window that exists between the close of candidate nominations, 21 days before polling day, and the very first day of advance polls, which is 10 days before election day. In large and remote ridings, getting the ballots printed and distributed across the riding in time for advance polls is already a significant challenge.
That said, we see four different options for the use of indigenous languages for federal ballots. Each option raises specific policy, operational and electoral integrity concerns that need to be considered by this committee. All but one of them require legislative changes. For ease of reference, I have supplied a placemat that reviews the four options and the main associated questions that they raise, mostly for Parliament.
One option would be to offer a multilingual ballot that includes one or more indigenous languages in designated constituencies. This first raises an important question about what threshold of an indigenous population in a constituency would be required before including an indigenous language and whether a cap on the number of languages on a ballot is necessary.
Some have suggested ballots should be made available to indigenous voters in their own language in constituencies where they represent 1% of the population. A bill to that effect was tabled. In practice, if measured by the mother tongue of indigenous Canadians, a 1% threshold would mean administering ballots in 17 indigenous languages in 27 constituencies, with up to five indigenous languages in some constituencies.
The use of printed ballots with more than two languages raises important questions regarding accessibility and design. Putting the names of parties and candidates in multiple languages on a ballot risks making a crowded, busy text that may be difficult for some voters to comprehend, especially voters with low literacy levels or an intellectual disability, as well as voters with a visual impairment. It would be critical to test the ballot design with user communities prior to the legislative enactment of this model.
Madam Chair, I've passed around a copy of a PDF document. This ballot was used in the constituency of Saint-Boniface—Saint-Vital in the last federal election.
Of course, this is an extreme example. Some ballots have only three candidates' names on them. That said, when we think about ballots, we must consider this type of complexity if we need to add languages.
A ballot in a language other than English and French requires the transliteration of candidate names and the translation of party names. Elections Canada isn't an expert on indigenous languages. We currently provide information products in 16 indigenous languages. We know that, for some of these languages, there are very few experts and that translation timelines are sometimes substantial. This significantly affects production timelines and the whole electoral calendar, which would need to be extended. Multilingual jurisdictions typically use other processes or solutions to provide ballots in the elector's preferred language. These processes include the use of electronic voting machines that allow electors to choose the language of their ballot. For example, this happens in the United States. Sometimes, logos or symbols can also be used instead of names to represent parties on ballots.
Another option would be to amend the act to allow for a separate indigenous language ballot. This option reduces ballot complexity for electors. However, it poses additional challenges with regard to production and distribution timelines. In addition, assuming that the two ballot options would be available throughout a given constituency, the secrecy of the vote could be compromised in places where members of one linguistic community are few in number. Having a distinct ballot used by only certain voters within a polling division could identify the voting choices of these voters. As a result, I don't recommend separate ballots.
A third option, which is a variation on the multilingual ballot, would be to pursue an approach similar to that used in territorial elections in Nunavut, where candidates who wish to do so can provide their names to appear on the ballot in the Inuit language. An amendment to the act could permit candidates to provide an indigenous language name for use on the ballot, alongside their name in English and French. Federal parties could also be entitled to provide indigenous versions of their names to be used on ballots in certain ridings if they wish. This would be consistent with the current approach, where parties can but are not required to have their names both in English and in French.
Although this option would remove the need for independent translation or transliteration of ballots, it raises other questions or considerations for Parliament. Candidates must currently provide documentary evidence of their name. Would this requirement be kept for indigenous names as well as for French and English names—two documents? If not—and I'm assuming not—would Elections Canada have to validate the transliteration? In addition, who would determine—the candidate or the party—which version of a party name is used in which riding? Finally, it is important to note that under this model indigenous electors would not necessarily be offered a ballot with all candidate and party names on the ballot.
The final option, which I recommend and which is used in some jurisdictions, does not require legislative change. Elections Canada would provide and can provide a facsimile of the ballot in an indigenous language for voters to use behind a voting screen. During the 2021 election, the last election, Elections Canada experimented for the first time with the use of a ballot facsimile, with the preparation of posters reproducing the ballot in Inuktitut displayed near the voting booth in all the polling stations in Nunavut. I've brought—and we've shared—copies of both the poster and the facsimile that was laid on the table for electors to see and to make the comparison. Despite some production challenges, we were able to produce the facsimile just in time for use at advance polls.
In consultation with indigenous communities, I would like to expand testing of this approach in other districts, using other languages, although I also plan to expand the deployment of information products in indigenous languages at the polls to reduce barriers and to ensure that the voting experience of indigenous Canadians is more reflective of their identity. This will allow us to become more familiar and agile at using indigenous languages in the voting process outside of Nunavut, which to date is the only Canadian jurisdiction with experience in this area. We will be able to work with candidates and parties to test facsimiles, including transliteration of candidate names and, where appropriate, translation of party names. We can also test out the timelines for the printing and production process.
In conclusion, Madam Chair, I understand the significance of this issue for indigenous Canadians and I am committed to increasing the use of indigenous languages in the electoral process, but I also urge this committee to consider carefully the complexities around the use of multilingual ballots. I do not recommend legislative changes at this stage, but to instead pursue and expand the use of facsimile ballots in other indigenous languages. This experience will help Elections Canada and this committee to take further and better-informed steps in this important area.
Thank you, Madam Chair, for inviting me. Of course, I'd welcome questions.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you, Mr. Perrault.
Those were great introductory remarks. Even with two interruptions, you stayed under 10 minutes. I appreciate that and the thoroughness of your comments.
We will now start our six-minute round, beginning with Mr. Vis, who will be followed by Mr. Turnbull.
Afterwards, it will be Ms. Gill's turn.
Ms. Gill, will you or Mr. Therrien be speaking?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Afterwards, it will be Ms. Idlout's turn.
Mr. Vis, the first six minutes go to you.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you to all the witnesses from Elections Canada today. This is a very fascinating subject.
My first question relates to special ballots or early voting.
In the last election, given the facsimile option, did Elections Canada accept special ballots, which I believe were written in Inuktitut?
11:15 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I did not raise it in my remarks, but it's an important issue.
That's something Parliament would have to consider. Under the current legislation, we do not accept languages other than those using the Latin alphabet, so the candidate name has to be written on the special ballot as it is officially in the candidate nomination in order for it to be accepted.
If we were to have special ballots in indigenous languages, it does raise a question when we're compiling the results in Ottawa for the mail-in ballots that go to Ottawa in a national vote. Then we would be dealing with quite a diversity of languages and alphabets, so whether that would include the special ballot is an important consideration. In the last election, it did not. In Nunavut, we had only the facsimile for the regular ballot, both at advance polls and at regular polls.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Just because this is a friendly conversation, that felt really good, but when the conversation is not so friendly it's always nicer to go through the chair. We'll do that when we're having a friendly conversation and not a friendly conversation.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
My apologies, Madam Chair. I took the red-eye last night, so right now I'm not as sharp as I usually am.
Through you, Mr. Perrault mentioned in his introductory remarks concerns about printing special ballots in indigenous languages. Given that it's already the case in Nunavut that ballots are printed in indigenous languages, how much of an impediment would it be for Elections Canada to have ballots printed in indigenous languages in that territory specifically?
11:15 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Thank you, Madam Chair.
There are very different situations across the country in different indigenous languages. In the case of Nunavut, translation is available within 24 to 48 hours, and we probably could have the ballot printed in Inuktitut. However, this would require an amendment to the legislation, and the policy considerations that I raised would be there.
Would all names be translated? Who would validate the translation? In the territorial collection, in Nunavut, the candidates themselves put forward their name. The name is not translated; it is taken as is from the candidate.
There are a range of policy issues there. There's the ordering of names on the ballot.
This is feasible, but it requires legislation to set the rules around the ballot format.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Madam Chair, through you to Elections Canada, I understand that after every election, and sometimes in between elections, Canada goes to the voters of our country and asks them about barriers to participation. In any of the surveys conducted by Elections Canada to date, has the language of the ballots been flagged as a barrier to participation by indigenous Canadians?
11:20 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Madam Chair, I can come back to that. Maybe my colleague has the answer.
I do not believe our surveys address the linguistic barriers for indigenous electors. I do not believe that is a category that we capture in our surveys, but I stand to be corrected by my colleagues. Unfortunately, we do not have that.
What we know is from what we learn on the ground in terms of serving electors in those communities and working through the AFN to engage first nation communities across the country during the election period.
We use different means to do that and we have a range of tools to support that, but I do not have data to share with this committee on this topic.
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
I have one final, quick question.
Madam Chair, if we were to have indigenous languages on the ballot, what section of the Canada Elections Act would have to be amended?
11:20 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Madam Chair, we can come back with information on that. There are a number of sections that would need to be amended. They're not hugely numerous, but we have that information and I could share it with the committee after this session.
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Madam Chair, finally, on special ballots, I think with foreign voters that would equally apply to further amendments to special ballots being mailed in from another country. Is that correct?
11:20 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Madam Chair, is that for Canadians abroad?
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
11:20 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Any changes to the language used on the special ballot would require a legislative amendment. It would also involve, presumably, some translation. The ballot itself, of which I have a copy here, has French and English on the back. I don't know whether we would want to translate that into several languages. That would create challenges in terms of ensuring that the right ballot goes to the right person. We probably want to keep it as simple as possible because of the diversity of electors we're dealing with for mail-in ballots, and keep the ballot as light as possible.
That would require changes to the legislation.
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
