Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

No problem.

[Allen Sutherland]

This is why a variety of factors went into the consideration. What parliamentarians have before them is October 27 as the date.

However, you're right that municipal, provincial and territorial elections, as Mr. Duncan pointed out, are also things that need to be considered.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

That brings me to another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Unfortunately, you're out of time, Mrs. Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I'll come back to it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Madam Barron, welcome to PROC. You have six minutes.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

To the witnesses, I'm happy to be here on this important topic.

Mr. Chair, I want to say that, first of all, it's always interesting to me to see the ways in which the Conservative Party show their disappointment that they're unable to deliver for Canadians in so many ways. Here is yet another example of Conservatives trying to kill a bill that is moving us in the right direction.

Are there problems with it? Absolutely, there are. The NDP is able to put forward ways the Liberals can see full participation in elections, so Canadians have more faith in our electoral processes. That is exactly what we've done. Now, with the Liberals.... We can't control what is done from there or the actual delivery of it. There are pieces in here that I agree are problematic. I've made it quite clear in the House of Commons that the piece around the election date being changed from the existing one is a problem. The result is that members of Parliament would be receiving a pension and benefits they would not have received otherwise. We know people are struggling across Canada to make ends meet. It is not the time for members of Parliament to be looking at their own pensions. This is why I was very clear in the House of Commons about ensuring we get commitment from all members of Parliament to see this removed.

Can I get a clarification, Mr. Sutherland?

Instead of looking at killing this entire bill, the NDP has put forward an amendment to have this specific section of the bill removed, so that the election date would continue to be as originally planned. Therefore, the pensions of members of Parliament would not be impacted.

If that were to be removed, would there be any benefit, unintended or not, to those pensions? Can you answer that question?

[Allen Sutherland]

I'm not an expert in MP pensions.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Do you anticipate that, if it were to be removed, the problem would be solved?

[Allen Sutherland]

Yes, I guess so, but only from what I've heard in some of the debate today.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

There is a solution. My understanding is that the majority of the people around this table—except for those in the Conservative Party, who want to see it killed—are in agreement. Again, there are solutions to see this work move forward.

Mr. Sutherland, there are so many important pieces in here that are of benefit to Canadians. One particular piece is around people who need support to cast their ballot.

My question is this: Although it's moving in the right direction to expand on support people being there, we know people much prefer to cast their own ballot with supports in place—to do it on their own. I'm wondering if you are aware of any movement or work happening to, for example, have Braille as an option for people who are appearing to vote.

[Allen Sutherland]

I'm not aware of any.

That is the sort of thing that might be considered as part of Elections Canada's ability to pilot different ideas. There have been examples in which, in the interest of accessibility, things have been piloted.

That might be a good question, perhaps, for the Chief Electoral Officer.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Yes. Hopefully, we'll be able to ask those questions soon.

Can you tell us a little more about making voting easier in long-term care facilities? You touched on that. We know there have been many barriers for people in these homes, who have contributed to our communities for generations, and they have not been able to vote.

Can you speak a bit more about the importance of that?

[Allen Sutherland]

Yes, we can.

Rachel, why don't you take that?

[Rachel Pereira]

Yes.

That was one of the lessons learned from the pandemic election—seeking ways to facilitate voting for electors in long-term care. As I mentioned earlier, the requirement for approving their address will be removed, so they will only require identification for themselves. Regular polling stations will be set up in long-term care homes, and we'll be able to suit those according to the best days and times that work for those electors and care homes. There will be mobile polls within an institution, whereby Elections Canada officials can move from room to room in order to help those electors vote. That is also in place.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much.

I want to get my last question in, because I don't have much time left.

With everything happening in the United States—their election is coming up soon—I think this particular new component is very important: the implementation of new protections against people knowingly making false or misleading statements related to an election or the voting process.

Can you share a little more about what that looks like and how we can make sure those protections are in place here in Canada?

[Allen Sutherland]

There are a couple of steps to these protections. One thing to note is that Elections Canada, as an institution, is much different from what we see in the United States, where you have the electoral process divided pretty much by region. It's not even at the state level. It's at the subregional level. That creates many of the problems you see. Canada starts with an enormous advantage by having a single elections administrator.

On top of that, we have the commissioner of Canada elections, who is empowered to look into issues.

Then, through the Chief Electoral Officer, we have created good relationships, so that when issues arise.... Let's say it's something like, “We look forward to everyone voting on Tuesday,” and that's misleading people. He already has well-established relationships with the social media companies and can get that disinformation addressed in a thoughtful way.

Now, specific to the act, I'll turn to Rachel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Go very quickly, please, Mrs. Pereira.

[Rachel Pereira]

You're correct. There is a new prohibition in the act to help safeguard against this. It would prohibit false statements regarding voting and the voting process. In the act, there are seven areas that provide that guidance, so the commissioner can determine whether they are false or not. It's not limited to the election period.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thanks very much, Ms. Barron.

Mr. Berthold, over to you for five minutes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Sutherland and Ms. Pereira.

I want to come back to what my colleague said earlier about the January 27, 2024, CTV article that said that Trudeau's and Singh's teams are quietly planning electoral reform and legislative change. Were you or anyone in the PMO involved in any of the conversations between the NDP and the Liberals?

[Allen Sutherland]

As part of the SACA considerations, I attended, I believe, two meetings of that kind.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

As a professional and senior public servant, Mr. Sutherland, did you not find it odd that discussions on reforming the Elections Act involved only two political parties to the exclusion of the others?

[Allen Sutherland]

It's important to understand what my role was in those meetings. It was simply to provide background information and technical information.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Can you commit to providing the committee with the information you provided to the other two political parties? To maintain Canadians' trust in the system, I think it's important that all political parties be given the same information that has been provided to the Liberal Party and the NDP.