Evidence of meeting #130 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was voting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
Thank you, Mr. Berthold.
Mr. Duguid, the floor is yours for five minutes.
October 31st, 2024 / 11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Terry Duguid Liberal Winnipeg South, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony.
Thank you for all your efforts to make our elections fairer and more accessible.
I'd like to talk, Mr. Chair, about the issue of disinformation and voter suppression, which has profound implications for our democracy. We know now what happened in Brexit and also in the 2016 and 2020 American elections. We see massive amounts of disinformation in the American election as we speak, with evidence of the involvement of foreign actors.
Mr. Chair, we've seen it right here at home with the Conservative Party, which clearly has been involved in voter suppression. I refer to the unfair elections act that the leader of the official opposition brought in himself. I would point to some of the provisions in that bill that really prevented access, particularly in the northern communities, which have limited ID options. The Conservative Party was fined $1 million for breaking election law, Mr. Chair. Of course, there was the very famous robocall scandal, for which I believe a Conservative operative went to jail. I know I had personal experience with that in the 2000 election, Mr. Chair, when seniors were being phoned at 11 o'clock at night on behalf of my campaign, supposedly. I think all will agree that's totally unacceptable.
My question is this: What kinds of penalties and what kinds of measures are going to deter these kinds of activities in the future? They are obviously very serious threats to our democracy.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
When we talk about issues of electoral interference, of course, the Elections Act provides a solid base upon which we work. You spoke of previous incidents through time, which I think speaks to the layering of what is a good piece of legislation, and it continues to improve.
In your current context, what happens is part of a broader set of supports and protections that the Government of Canada has put in. You will have seen in the foreign interference inquiry the testimony of different officials who they talked about the different sorts of protections that exist. When it comes to the Elections Act, however, there have been supports that have been enhanced for the commissioner of Canada elections. In particular, on her supports, we engaged with her and asked what she needed in order to do her job more effectively. The proposed legislation reflects the things that she identified in order to enhance her role, including the use of AMPing powers.
Rachel, do you have some other things?
Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office
Yes. The commissioner has an administrative monetary penalty regime whereby she can issue potentially a warning letter to those who contravene the act or who potentially enter into compliance agreements with individuals who contravene the act, or she can issue an administrative monetary penalty where warranted following an investigation. No changes are being made to that particular regime, but there are more provisions under the act that will fall under the AMPs regime.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Mr. Sutherland, does this bill help hold party leaders accountable for taking foreign interference seriously?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
To the extent that everyone needs to follow the law, it certainly does that. However, there's nothing specific that I know of in the bill that directly implicates party leaders.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Would you agree that party leaders should treat the matter with the seriousness it deserves?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Yes.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Does that include getting a top secret security clearance in order to be able to review the intelligence that would enable them to better protect their MPs and their parties?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Mr. Chair, I don't feel I can speak competently to that.
Liberal
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
I feel very strongly that this is an issue I am not able to speak competently about.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
Thank you, Mr. Duguid and Mr. Turnbull.
Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Sutherland, you said you worked with the minister on proposals. I would like you to quickly remind us of the essential pillars underlying the bill.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
There are three main pillars to the bill. The first speaks to accessibility. The second speaks to privacy protections for Canadians. The third speaks to countering foreign interference.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Sutherland.
I was talking earlier about the issue of municipal elections taking place at the same time next year.
I'm a bit surprised because, in my opinion, measures for people to find other times to vote during Diwali become pointless when people can still exercise their right to vote. Issues like that are considered more important than accessibility or trying to reduce the cynicism of Quebec voters. Is that a fair assessment?
In fact, the pillars should underpin the bill. In proposing a date change, we are working against one of the three pillars we wanted to work on.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Mr. Chair, I think the issue before parliamentarians is whether that date is the appropriate one or not, and that's a discussion you folks should have.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
As an elected official, I can ask whatever question I want.
I think I'm absolutely interested in the voters and the choice of dates. We wanted to work on certain values, we had objectives, but we're moving away from those objectives or undermining them by deciding to prioritize a measure that will ultimately be completely pointless. It will undermine the objective of accessibility because voters, specifically in Quebec in this case, will definitely suffer negative consequences from the overlap of the general election and municipal elections.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
I didn't hear a question.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Actually, I was repeating my question. I wanted to know if the date change would contravene the objectives of the bill.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
I am not changing the date. I am merely representing the technical aspects of it.
I would simply say that in Canadian society today, in all its complexity, it's very challenging to find a date when there isn't a conflict of some sort, whether it is municipal, provincial or territorial, or religious or cultural observances. That is what is before members of the House. It is to find that appropriate—