Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 31st, 2022

[Karliin Aariak]

That would be a help, but it's not on the ballot. What we're talking about is including Inuit language on the ballots.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes.

[Karliin Aariak]

Skip that. Let's get the Inuit language on the ballots.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

That was very helpful.

I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

That was very helpful.

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

Mr. Turnbull, six minutes go to you.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.

I'm getting a bit of an echo. Can you hear me okay?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We can. We don't have an echo.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's great. Thanks.

Thank you for being here. I really appreciated your testimony.

We heard from the Chief Electoral Officer earlier this week. In his remarks, Mr. Perrault highlighted four different options.

He also talked a bit about the pilot that was done in Nunavut in the last election. There was some attempt to translate and provide some of the election materials in Inuktitut. Some of you have acknowledged that there's some effort there, but you've also pointed out that that was insufficient.

When I asked the CEO of Elections Canada whether he had received any feedback from the people in Nunavut, he didn't seem to have much to say in terms of direct feedback.

I want to give you an opportunity. You've given some feedback here. In general, Ms. Kotierk, you said there was a low turnout in the last election. Do you think that was a result of the pilot not being successful?

[Aluki Kotierk]

[Witness spoke in Inuktitut]

[English]

Thank you for the question.

As Mr. Vollant indicated, there are many factors why there is low voter turnout. I indicated in my remarks that the ability to vote is still something fairly new—since the 1960s—that we've been exercising. As Commissioner Aariak has indicated, Inuit expect to be able to participate in the democratic process in Inuktut. Any efforts to ensure that Inuktut is available on the ballots will help to make it less intimidating and make it something that we feel we're a part of.

There have been instances where I've heard candidates say on the community radio, for instance, “When you go to vote, my name will be in the middle,” if there are three candidates, or “If you go to vote, my name will be the last one.” They do that because it's not in Inuktut, and to give people the confidence that they're going to vote for the person that they want to vote for.

To me, that's adapting to a system that is not serving our needs.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you for your remarks. I appreciate that response.

Mr. Vis also mentioned what the CEO said was his preference, which seemed to be the ballot facsimile. That is a copy of the ballot that could be translated into Inuktitut, and put in the voter booth, so that electors could reference it when they're filling out the ballot.

I think the reason the CEO was saying that would work.... I think it goes beyond just Nunavut. You acknowledged in your opening remarks that Nunavut is unique in its jurisdiction, because the majority of electors speak one indigenous language, whereas in other parts of the country, there are many indigenous languages that are present in different jurisdictions. I think the CEO was trying to find a solution that might work for all indigenous languages and many jurisdictions across the country. There is consideration there.

This is a challenging issue. We're all committed to doing what's best here, which is moving along the path to ensuring that all indigenous languages are included to the greatest degree possible. I wonder whether, under that circumstance, considering all of the other jurisdictions, you think the ballot facsimile would be a good approach to take. I recognize that Nunavut might be somewhat unique.

Ms. Aariak, maybe I could go to you.

[Karliin Aariak]

Qujannamiik, Mr. Turnbull, for the question.

My jurisdiction is in Nunavut, and I would like to acknowledge that. These language rights are in Nunavut. The federal department and government agencies have to abide by the language legislation in Nunavut already. This is why my recommendation was for Elections Canada to have a specific policy and procedure for Nunavut electors, because this is a jurisdiction that recognizes not only the official languages of Canada—English and French—but also the Inuit language.

Because of the uniqueness of our jurisdiction, we expect our language rights to be respected. We expect to be able to be involved in the electoral process and to have our language be visible and used.

Does that answer your question?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

It does, yes. Thank you very much for that.

I guess what I'm wondering, then, is whether Nunavut would have a different approach from other jurisdictions around the country, from your point of view. I recognize that you're advocating for your jurisdiction. That makes perfect sense, and I would never fault you for doing so; that's for sure. I'm just thinking more broadly, as Elections Canada has a mandate to serve the entire country.

From an elections standpoint, I'm wondering whether you think the approach in Nunavut should be unique to Nunavut, with maybe a different approach needed for other jurisdictions. What would you say to that, Ms. Aariak?

[Karliin Aariak]

That would support the recommendation I mentioned where I would like Elections Canada to have a specific policy and procedure for Nunavut because of our jurisdiction and the legislation we have. I think it would be a great opportunity to start off by working better within the jurisdiction of Nunavut.

I also recognize the fact that there were some efforts being made by Elections Canada in the last federal election to expose and have more communications and material in the Inuit language, but again, there were some shortfalls. Because in Nunavut we're in a jurisdiction where language rights are strong, I think it would be a great start. For the other jurisdictions, the ballot....

I'm sorry. How do you say that? English is my second language.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

No problem. It's the ballot “facsimile”.

[Karliin Aariak]

Yes. I could see the ballot facsimile working in other jurisdictions, but in Nunavut we're advanced in recognizing our Inuit language rights. My recommendation, as mentioned, is to have the Inuit language in Roman orthography and in syllabics on the ballot.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Madam Chair, I note that Mr. Vollant has also raised his hand.

Maybe he could respond quickly, if you are okay with that. I don't want him to feel excluded.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We would not want that.

Go ahead, Mr. Vollant.

[Shikuan Vollant]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to make one little comment. What we and our Inuit sisters are saying may seem a little contradictory, but that is not the case. In fact, this may be an opportunity for the members of this committee to finally realize that each people, each nation, is unique.

I am 30 years old today and I am part of one of the last generations that speak our language perfectly. The important thing is to promote our language so that our young people can learn it. I have a lot of nephews and nieces who no longer speak our language and speak more English with YouTube than they speak Innu-aimun, my mother tongue.

I don't think that would help us. An example is my mother, who is 69 years old today and does not really speak French, who has a lot of trouble speaking, but still votes. I don't think it would be useful for us, farther south, to have the opportunity to vote in Innu. The important thing really is funding for learning our languages. Whether you speak French or English, you learn to speak before learning to read and write. Having ballots in our language would not do anything for us.

If you want First Nations members to vote more, give them a reason to do it. It isn't a question of making it easier to vote; it is a question of giving a real reason to vote. That is what is important for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you for those comments.

I now turn the floor over to Ms. Gill.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Tshinashkumitin to utshimau, to utshimau Gray-Lehoux, and to all the witnesses who are with us today.

I have to admit that as a member for the North Shore—and that doesn't apply just to the North Shore—I am very pleased to see young people today. It is rare for young people to appear before our committee and all parliamentary committees. I also sit on the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. We should hear from young people more often. Mr. Vollant said just now that he is 30 years old. In some Indigenous communities, people are very young. I am thinking of Atikamekw in particular, where 65 per cent of the communities are made up of people younger than 30 or 35. I am very old, compared to them. We should invite them more often.

I found one presentation very interesting. For one thing, yes, we are all acting with good will. There is a difference between the situation in Nunavut and the situation where I come from, on the North Shore. Adding Indigenous languages to ballots in federal elections will not be an incentive for people in Nunavut to go out and vote in greater numbers. Nor is that what will revitalize Indigenous languages. I say "where I come from, on the North Shore", but Mashteuiatsh is right next door, in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. The same is true for the people of Mashteuiatsh.

I also want to wish everyone a happy National Indigenous Languages Day.

If Indigenous languages were to appear on ballots, it would still be progress. Then we would ensure that Innu-aimun, for example, was promoted in our polling stations. Indigenous people would at least see their language occupying visual space.

If we had electronic voting, would young people like that? The environmental footprint would not be the same if we decided to hold an electronic vote. Even if we agree that this would not revitalize Indigenous languages—we are not there yet—might some people find it worthwhile? I'm thinking of elders, in particular, who would see their language come back to life in other ways, even if in writing.

Of course, my questions are forutshimau Vollant and utshimau Gray-Lehoux.

[Shikuan Vollant]

Hello, Ms. Gill. It's been a long time since we saw each other.

Ms. Gill is our MP.

This is a very difficult question. When another entity appropriates the language... Do you understand what I am getting at? Yes, it's nice. When you go to the hospital, you see the words "Kuei, Bonjour, Welcome". It's written in several languages. But I don't think I feel more welcome or more at home because of that.

As a Quebecker, you will say "Kuei" to me out of respect, but you will also say "Hello" to me, because that word belongs to you. It is a matter of belonging.

The Canadian constitution doesn't belong to me. My laws come from the spiritual laws of my ancestors. That is what is important to me. That is what my everyday life is based on.

As I said, my mother, who doesn't really speak French, will vote somehow, it's her own choice. In fact, you met her on September 30, and you thanked her for being there. I don't think that if she saw the word "Kuei" it would change anything. The word "vote" doesn't even exist in the Innu language. Do you understand? The word "vote" doesn't work. We aren't going to reinvent the wheel. My mother wouldn't feel more at home.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

If find what you are saying really interesting. I wasn't thinking of talking about culture, but it is unavoidable.

In the Innu language, the word "vote" doesn't even exist. Today, I wanted to talk about the Innu-aimun identity. People have told me that the word "identity" doesn't exist in that language, just like the word "vote". In terms of culture, even if we want to translate or interpret those words, it can only be literal. That doesn't even convey what you want to say as a nation. That is what you're telling me. There is a language and we see it written, but it doesn't correspond to your values and to what you would like to communicate.

I absolutely don't want to put words in your mouth, but that would be a relative appropriation and lack of understanding of what you want, that is, that programs be funded so the language could be taught and so you could live in your language, speak your language at work and at home and more or less everywhere. That is more important to you than what appears on the ballot, is that right?

[Shikuan Vollant]

Yes, that's what is most important to us.

Mr. Gray-Lehoux was just saying that you learn to speak before reading and writing. I'm going to be honest with you [Technical difficulty—Editor] I always have trouble reading 95 per cent of the words in my language, Innu. Reading my language and speaking it are two very different things. It takes experts to write it today.

For a young person, it would be much easier to read the words "Vote for Marilène Gill" than to try to invent a word they have never heard or read, one that would be very long. That is much easier for us young people.

As I said earlier, find a way for members of the First Nations to feel at home, so more of them are able to vote.

Honestly, as long as the Indian Act exists, Indigenous people are not going to feel at home in the House of Commons.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Vollant.

I have one more question, but I might go over my allotted time. Madam Chair, may I ask it? If not, I can wait until later.

At the last meeting, we talked very technically about the threshold of one per cent of people in a riding being speakers of an Indigenous language in order for that language to be included on ballots. That is just a proposal at present, but, as I pointed out to the Chief Electoral Officer, I think it could have repercussions elsewhere, for other Indigenous languages or other issues, not just on ballots.

To summarize, the proposal was that we offer this service if at least one per cent of people in a riding speak the language in question. I had some reservations about this. For you, Quebec is already an arbitrary kind of space. We aren't talking about Nitassinan; that is something else. You live in Nitassinan.

In addition, there is the subject of electoral boundaries, which mean that Mashteuiatsh is not part of the North Shore, the effect being to reduce your demographic weight.

Whether we are talking about ballots or other decisions the government makes, do you think that these kinds of quantitative thresholds—leaving aside the qualitative aspect—are going to stand up?

I am thinking about people I know, like Natasha Kanapé Fontaine, whom I have referred to, and Michèle Audette, whom I was speaking with yesterday. Ms. Audette told me that she had to relearn Innu-aimun herself.

Personally, I really have the impression that quantitative criteria like those used in the proposal are not the ones we should be relying on for creating a place for Indigenous languages.

I would like to hear your thoughts on that subject.

Tshinashkumitin.