Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Thank you very much. Madam Chair.

Through you, I appreciate a desire to share a greater sense of security with your family, with your constituents and with Canadians more broadly.

I can assure you, though, that the characterizations you just laid out are not accurate. I am not aware of any intelligence that suggested there were munitions and IEDs attached to any of the vehicles coming. I'm not aware of any of that being the case for any of the vehicles that were here. However, I was not a part of the final days of the events.

There was a command post—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Chair, I really want Mr. Sloly to answer the question.

Why? There were tickets to be given out and it wasn't done.

My question is only about that.

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Chair, through you, this is unfortunately inaccurate information. I think those details will be provided through the important study of Justice Rouleau. I will agree to participate, however I'm called, to that inquiry or other standing committees.

Unfortunately, these are not adequately informed positions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through you, if I could ask Mr. Sloly.... One of the things he spoke about in his presentation was misinformation and the challenges with regard to that. I noticed that, eventually, the Ontario police Twitter account started to address misinformation directly. I'm wondering if that had any impact.

Reflecting on what has happened, how is dealing with misinformation important? What things could we do better in the future?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Madam Chair, through you, that's an excellent question, and it's one that I hope this committee will really put its mind to. There are the physical threats and cyber-threats. I believe, in the long term, the greater threat to security and safety in our democracy and within the parliamentary precinct will be around the level of trust that people have in our institutions and in the information that might come from a source like the Ottawa Police Service, the RCMP or the Parliamentary Protective Service.

Right now, from the feedback that I have had from the military, national security and police agencies, our inability to have a single source of truth and to have timely information that is consumed, believed and trusted, and, therefore, acted upon is one of the greatest local and national security threats that we're facing.

Whatever efforts this committee and any other committee working on this can make around disinformation campaigns, particularly those that are started and furthered on social media and other digital platforms, will be critically important to the safety of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

On behalf of committee members, I want to thank Senator White and Mr. Sloly for their time here today. I will also say that sometimes additional thoughts come to mind or you might want to expand on the information you've shared. We would welcome that information for members through the clerk. Please do not hesitate.

I hope you and your loved ones keep well and safe.

With that, we will suspend and switch over to the second panel.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I call the meeting back to order.

For the second part of our meeting, we have community advocates Chief Wendy Jocko and assistant professor of indigenous studies, Veldon Coburn.

I'd like to welcome you both to the procedure and House affairs committee.

Chief, we will start with you. You have up to five minutes for your opening comments.

[Wendy Jocko, Chief, Algonquins of Pikwakanagan First Nation]

Meegwetch, Chair.

[Witness spoke in Algonquin and provided the following text:]

Anishinabe aking ate awso kikina-wadji-chigun.

[Witness provided the following translation:]

This land we are upon, the spot where you sit now, is the traditional territory of the Algonquin people.

[English]

The Anishinabe Algonquin people are one heart and one soul, and have lived for thousands of years on this unsurrendered territory. We thank and honour the land.

We acknowledge the enduring presence of all first nations, Inuit and Métis people who call the Algonquin territory their home, along with other nations. We acknowledge all of the residential school survivors and children who never made it home. We acknowledge the survivors and all they have endured.

We honour the important contributions of all veterans in the service of Canada. We remember those who lost their lives and those whose lives were forever changed.

I would like to begin by thanking the committee for inviting me to discuss expanding the parliamentary precinct to include sections of Wellington Street and Sparks Street.

On October 22, 2014, a man evaded security and entered the Hall of Honour with a rifle and a knife after fatally shooting Corporal Nathan Cirillo of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada. He threatened the very lives of parliamentarians and personnel at the Hill. Before he was stopped, he injured a constable. That day, it was as if the very democratic principles of our country were under attack. Our country was unified then in its condemnation of this heinous act, vowing “never again”.

On November 2014, the joint advisory working group on security identified a lack of communication among security groups on Parliament Hill as a significant problem and recommended combining the existing security forces under the Senate, the House of Commons and the RCMP detachment in charge of the grounds into one integrated security service. Parliament subsequently passed Bill C-51, the Anti-terrorism Act, 2015, which, among other things, amalgamated the Senate Protective Service, House of Commons Security Services and Parliament's RCMP detachment into the Parliamentary Protective Service.

In late January to mid-February 2022, demonstrators occupied the downtown core of Ottawa, including much of the parliamentary precinct. The Ottawa Police Service acted as the lead agency, with a number of other agencies from across Canada providing support. The Parliamentary Protective Service was responsible for security on Parliament Hill and at the Senate of Canada building.

The polite—some would say even mild-mannered—police response to the blockade of downtown Ottawa by thousands of protesters revealed to indigenous people a double standard in how law enforcement agencies treat civil disobedience. Had indigenous activists made the same threats, broken the same laws and engaged in the same level of disruption, history has shown they would probably have been met with a very heavy-handed crackdown.

To some, it leaves little doubt that there was racism involved. Many have asked why people were allowed to threaten the life of the Prime Minister, especially after the promises made after the death of Corporal Nathan Cirillo. While there were some in the group who claimed to be indigenous, they did not respect the protocols of the Algonquin nation in respecting ceremony. They were asked by the rights holders and the chiefs of Pikwakanagan, Kitigan Zibi and the Algonquin Anishinabeg Nation Tribal Council to respect our territory and customs, to no avail.

We wondered about that, because if it had been an indigenous person, they would most certainly be sitting in jail.

Social media users shared images of flags bearing icons of fascism, white supremacy and hate, including Nazi swastikas and Confederate flags that garnered shock, horror and outrage. My own father and mother, both military veterans of the Second World War, would have been saddened by the presence of these deplorable symbols of hate.

Video also circulated showing demonstrators appropriating first nation drumming as they danced, drank beer and chanted “yabba dabba doo” and nonsense while shouting obscenities to the Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau. The drum is a sacred ceremonial item whose handling is governed by specific cultural protocols. These episodes happened only steps away from the Centennial Flame, where throughout the summer stood a memorial to residential school victims. It was an absolute insult.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Chief, if you could finish up your comments, that would be great.

[Wendy Jocko]

Okay.

The parliamentary precinct currently includes the buildings and the grounds on and around Parliament Hill. The area covers the three city blocks on the south side of Wellington Street, between Elgin Street and Bank Street, and along the north side of Sparks Street. The expansion of the parliamentary precinct to include sections of Wellington Street and Sparks Street to ensure another unlawful occupation does not occur in the downtown core again will allow more robust safety protocols to be put in place and should definitely be re-evaluated.

However, this does raise some questions. We understand that the extending of the parliamentary district to include what I've just described will have a potential effect on the Algonquin building that has been promised to our nation. While in principle we may wish to support the extension of the zone, we need to ensure that the spirit of this promise is maintained. Therefore, clarity around how this extension will affect this promise needs to be unpacked.

I guess I can end there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We can also share around your opening comments, and we'll make sure they're translated. We'll also have time for questions and comments.

Mr. Coburn, you have up to five minutes.

[Dr. Veldon Coburn, Assistant Professor, Indigenous Studies, As an Individual]

Thank you and good afternoon.

I won't be saying as much as my chief did. I'm grateful for her. She is quite eloquent and I underscore her service to the nation in the military and those from the Algonquin nation who did likewise, including my grandfather. I've had two grandfathers who served in the military, as did my father.

The point I would like to register with the parliamentary committee today—and some of this has been alluded to by Chief Jocko—is that, yes, although we use the words “traditional Algonquin territory”, we are the rights holders. We still maintain that because it is unceded. What that means is that the territory is unmodified in our section 35 treaty and aboriginal rights. We do have the aboriginal rights. They are recognized and affirmed in the Constitution although the treaty rights are under the negotiations of the current modern treaty process in Ontario and have been under way for 30 years now, since the early 1990s, accepted by the Crown in right of Canada and the Crown in right of the Province of Ontario.

My point to impress upon you here is that, when you consider expanding the parliamentary precinct to enforce, you must consider what Chief Jocko alluded to, that there are considerations of access and mobility through the particular area, which are still Algonquin rights that should be upheld. They were infringed upon by those protesting.

One point is the indigenous peoples space, for which the Algonquin nation reached an agreement with then Crown—Indigenous Relations minister Carolyn Bennett back in July 2019. That lies across the street from Parliament Hill at 100 Wellington Street.

Access and mobility as Algonquin rights for the area also include our access through Wellington Street to make our way to what we know in Algonquin as Akikodjiwan and Akikpautik, which are known as the Chaudière Island. It is a very sacred site. Our access to that and mobility through there were considerably constrained by the protesters and the convoy.

Now, I am respectful that the right to protest comes as an individual right under the charter, but also we might have to consider the balancing of charter rights against our section 35 aboriginal rights of access and mobility.

I would close very quickly with these concise words. Not only is that a question but what Chief Jocko alluded to is that oftentimes when Algonquins protest with non-indigenous peoples but also with other indigenous nations that are here in the seat of federal power in Ottawa, our indigenous protests are typically quite peaceful, but we are met with considerable police presence. While a march of ours may go through the downtown core, down Wellington Street past Parliament, it may be very transitory in nature. It isn't an occupation entailing all the sort of despicable and unseemly behaviour that Chief Jocko enumerated, which, I might add, included reports of defecation and urination.

I'd be happy to talk further about what is entailed between Crown-Indigenous Relations and those of us in the Algonquin nation as we make our way towards the modern treaty. Chief Jocko is an Algonquin negotiation representative and might be able to fill you in a little bit more about the comprehensive claims policy as we seek certainty around our treaty rights in this particular region, which includes Parliament Hill and the parliamentary precinct.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you very much for those comments.

We will now proceed to six-minute rounds, starting with Mr. McCauley followed by Mr. Fergus, Madame Gaudreau and then Mrs. Blaney.

Mr. McCauley, you have up to six minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great. Thank you. Through you, Chair, I'd like to thank the witnesses for the feedback and the information.

Professor Coburn, I'd like to chat with you. You chatted about access to Chaudière Island. I'm more interested, going forward, in any of the plans that have been put forward for the changes in the precinct. We see the transit loop. Realizing that what happened in January and February, as difficult as it was for a lot of constituents and folks, was generally, hopefully, a once-in-a-lifetime thing, we should not take away all access to everything based on, perhaps, what looks to be a policing and city failure.

What are your thoughts on the plans that have been publicized so far? Has your community been brought in enough, discussed enough, been consulted enough about access to Chaudière and other areas?

[Dr. Veldon Coburn]

I don't believe so. I'm a citizen of the Algonquins of Pikwakanagan, and Chief Jocko is my chief on chief and council. She represents one of the chiefs of—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great, because she was getting that as a follow-up question, so that works out.

[Dr. Veldon Coburn]

Right. Chief Jocko is very good about reaching out to the citizenship for consultations. We would have received information packages. We receive them weekly for information that the chief and council seek input on.

I don't believe I have. I would defer to her, but as a citizen, normally no, I haven't, not from any of the authorities themselves from our nation.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Through the chair, it's a continuation. I'd like to hear feedback on what the community thinks of the proposed changes. We've seen everything from the Alexandra Bridge being reused, torn down, repurposed, a loop, a pedestrian street.

I'd like to hear what the community thinks of those proposed changes, and if the community has been involved in any consultations and given any feedback on any of the proposed goals. What are the top goals of the community and what are the absolute no goes—like do not go down that path as it will not be acceptable to us?

I'll give you the rest of my time to hear your thoughts and feedback.

[Chief Wendy Jocko]

From us both...?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, from you both, please, and Chief Jocko, jump in if it's more relevant to you, being on the council.

[Dr. Veldon Coburn]

I might defer to our political leadership right now, but I'm happy to provide any kind of information, say, on the historical importance of various sites around the area as well.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm thinking more about a go-forward basis, so that we don't end up two years from now making all these plans and saying, hey, we forgot to ask this community.

I'm curious right now. Again we've heard of the transit loop, shutting down Wellington, expanding police services. Has your community been consulted, and what are your thoughts on what we should do with this area? What are the absolute no goes you cannot go forward with, from your point of view?

[Dr. Veldon Coburn]

I think a little more of an extensive consultation with the wider Algonquin Anishinabe nation, so Chief Jocko and her council as well as the.... Because, despite this being in Ontario, and we're the only status first nation of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation in Ontario, there are nine others in Quebec where title is vested in the nation. They would have to be consulted, I believe, but they are also represented by more of a conglomerate federation through the Algonquin Anishinabeg Nation Tribal Council, so they have a larger body that could join in on the consultations.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Chief Jocko, would you weigh in there?