Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

You were involved, obviously, with a lot of talks with the PPS and also with the RCMP. Were you aware if the RCMP provided such services or had done non-invasive checks—for lack of better words—for explosives?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Again, thank you, sir.

Chair, through you, I am not aware of any such request or any such acts.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Through the chair, did this issue come up at all in your high-level discussions and the coordination with RCMP and PPS?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Chair, through you, there were a number of discussions around the overall intelligence capabilities from the national security levels down to municipal police agencies like mine that had events taking place within their jurisdictions. Other than in high-level discussions around the past, current and future capabilities of intelligence to resolve the circumstances, I never participated in any meeting or discussions in which those specific items were raised.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

My time is up. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you so much.

We will now move to Mr. Naqvi for up to six minutes.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I will be asking questions through you, and I want to thank both our witnesses for their public service and for being here today.

Mr. Sloly, I will start with you, through the chair, if I may. Can you speak to the kind of occupation that you saw take place as a result of the protest you spoke about, how the nature of protest has changed and perhaps the level of lawlessness that you and the Ottawa Police Service were experiencing during this protest?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Chair, thank you. Through you to Mr. Naqvi, I appreciate the question.

It's been probably the most overused but accurate word. It was unprecedented. It was unforseen. That doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't have been predicted, but the totality of the intelligence, the totality of the experience within the Canadian policing and national security agencies had never seen and dealt with a demonstration, an occupation or illegal actions of the nature in and around the events of the “freedom convoy”.

I can tell you from my personal experience in over 30 years in policing that I had never experienced that, and I have been involved in major planned and unplanned incidents in this country, across this country and internationally. The level of organization, counter-intelligence, logistics, planning, financial resources and commitment—individual and collective—were on a scale that I had not experienced. As I said in my opening comments through you, Chair, institutionally and nationally, we were unprepared for it. Locally, we were unprepared for it.

That said, we pulled together locally through the leadership of people like you. We pulled together nationally and were able to successfully resolve a national security crisis without loss of life or serious injury. There's a lot to learn from it, but there's a lot to give credit for to every Canadian who was directly impacted and involved in the resolution.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Absolutely. Through you, Chair, I recognize and I'm thinking of the timeline for the invocation of the Emergencies Act and how it might have been just around the time that you stepped down as the chief of the Ottawa Police.

I'm sure you've looked at the very targeted powers that were provided for under the Emergencies Act. Given the experience of those of you who were involved in the operation, do you feel that those were appropriate and targeted powers that were required to bring an end to the occupation that was taking place in Ottawa?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Thank you. Chair, through you, to Mr. Naqvi, there is no doubt in my mind that efforts needed to come from across the policing, justice and national security organizations in this country and well beyond those. I expressed that numerous times and I will continue to say that this was a whole-of-society effort to address a national security crisis.

The various invocations of emergencies at all three levels of government in relation to these events had, in some material way, benefits. Primarily, as the head of the police of jurisdiction and the chief of police in Ottawa, my number one need was police resources—police officers with specific skill sets on a scale that had never been gathered before nationally to address this. I also needed all the other efforts of private citizens, BIAs, the not-for-profit sector and the three levels of government, including the invocation of the various emergencies and the private injunction. They all contributed in some way to the success of resolving that national security crisis.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

To Senator White, through you, Chair, you've spoken before and today about security and Wellington Street. One of the key aspects this committee is looking at is expanding the parliamentary precinct, which in my view goes hand in hand with keeping Wellington Street closed and making it more pedestrian.

Do you think that's the right direction we need to move in to ensure that the entire parliamentary precinct is secure, not only for people who work here but also for the residents and small businesses in and around the parliamentary precinct?

[Vernon White]

Through you, Madam Chair, I thank the member for the question.

Absolutely. I think that's the way we can reduce the risk, in particular in front of the parliamentary precinct. I want to include in that the Langevin building. Although it is not part of the parliamentary precinct, it is the Office of the Prime Minister. It's a high-risk location. I think the fact that we've continued to allow large vehicles to travel that route has been a problem for us. In fact, in 2014, I spoke with city council members as well as city administration about the fact that I felt we should close it off after the shooting on the Hill. Their concern was around the bus service. They did say that they would consider that once the LRT was in place, and it is now in place.

I certainly think it would alleviate some of that threat. As long as we don't do that, we have a continued risk in that location.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Very quickly, through you, Madam Chair, to Mr. Sloly, do you concur with Senator White's assessment?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

I do. I mentioned in my comments that there should be consideration of what I call crime prevention through environmental design. That includes boundary changes, bollards and barriers. While I specifically referenced vehicles, I think in general there just needs to be control of the movement of people and things through the parliamentary precinct, given the security required for such an important area for Canadians.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, both.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent. Thank you.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses very much for being here.

I'm going to speak slowly, and I hope I'm not going to be limited by time. I have a lot of questions to ask. I have written them down and I will also use the documents I have in hand.

In previous meetings, witnesses have told us that there was a command post from the first week the convoy set up.

I am addressing Mr. Sloly, Madam Chair.

On what date were you informed that a large convoy was coming to Wellington Street?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Madam Chair, my microphone wasn't working. I missed almost all of the opening context and most of the question.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

On what date were you informed that a convoy was coming to Wellington Street?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Through you, Chair, I think I understand most of the question.

I don't have the exact date. It was the week of February 13 when I think the formal announcement came out of British Columbia about a convoy that would be travelling. Probably within 24 to 72 hours of that I would have received some sort of a briefing note.

At that time, we were actually dealing with the horrific death of multiple people in an explosion here in Ottawa. That was my primary concern at that point. I started to receive material intelligence briefings from federal and provincial bodies during that week in the buildup to the arrival on the weekend of the 26th, 27th and 28th, but at no point were we given a full understanding of the totality of the threats and the volatility that we would be experiencing over the subsequent weeks.

Through you, Madam Chair, I hope that answers the question, although I'm not sure I got the translation correctly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Perhaps I can pause the time here.

Mr. Sloly, you mentioned February 13. Did you mean January 13?

[Chief Peter Sloly]

You're correct, Madam Chair. It was January 13.

Again, in terms of the context, I came prepared to talk about this committee's mandate. I have not received the information that I would need to review all of the dates and times in order to be precise, so it's with that caveat.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I actually appreciate that caveat, because we are here in regard to the parliamentary precinct. There are questions that kind of relate into that world. Therefore, sometimes it's not a clear line. As you are comfortable, please do answer the questions that are being posed of you and we'll make it work.

[Chief Peter Sloly]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I will resume the time.