Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 9th, 2022

[Steve Kanellakos]

Madam Chair, the last conversation was about two months ago. Right now, I believe the PSPC and the NCC are discussing who is going to be the lead on it. I'll defer to Mr. Nussbaum on that one.

The discussion is capturing and starting to frame many of the things I outlined in my opening comments.

[Tobi Nussbaum]

I'd be happy to add to that, Madam Chair.

It is true that we are engaged with PSPC on a discussion to make sure that we have a full scope of all of the issues that need to be raised. The hope is that we can engage the City of Ottawa soon on some of the details that have been discussed so far.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Through you, Madam Chair, I want to thank Mr. Nussbaum for recently, in co-operation with the City of Ottawa, putting planters on both the Elgin and Bank sides of Wellington Street so that we can beautify the closure, as opposed to having ugly barriers. I'd like to thank him very much for that particular action.

Mr. Nussbaum, does the NCC support the closure of Wellington Street and making it more part of an active transportation route, connecting it to some of the various routes that the NCC and the City of Ottawa are developing around the downtown core?

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Yes. I think we have a very open mind. We see a lot of advantages to focusing that portion of Wellington Street on, of course, service vehicles for Parliament Hill, public transportation and active transportation. At the same time, we do recognize that some data, such as traffic studies and so on, still needs to be collected and better understood.

I think it's fair to say that we have a very open mind and are positively inclined towards a rethink of how that space can work.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Through you, Madam Chair, I have a question for Ms. Amilcar on transit routes for both OC Transpo and STO.

Since Wellington Street is closed right now, how are the detours working out in terms of the stops used by customers, etc?

[Renée Amilcar]

Thank you for the question.

Bus route number 15 uses the section of Wellington Street that is currently closed. So there is a detour now and we have informed our customers. So route number 15 is still running.

Normally, bus route number 17 uses Wellington Street. However, during the pandemic, we suspended that route. It should be returned to service at some point.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Have you seen an increase in the use of the light rail train system as a result of some of these routes being detoured or suspended?

[Renée Amilcar]

We haven't seen an increase in use of the light rail train, since federal employees have not yet gone back in the city. So ridership is still very low, and this has a major impact on ridership on our Wellington Street buses.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Kanellakos, you talked about the volume of motor vehicles on Wellington Street. This information may not be available, but I wonder if data could be shared on accident rates, injuries or fatalities, if any, on Wellington Street due to vehicular traffic. Could you provide that for the benefit of this committee?

[Steve Kanellakos]

Yes, we'd be happy to provide that to the committee. We have that data.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent. Thank you.

Ms. Gaudreau, the floor is yours.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to summarize our work and see where we are. The objective of our committee is to identify the potential benefits of expanding the federal jurisdiction for the security of parliamentarians to a larger perimeter than it currently takes in. The previous questions from my colleagues were very interesting. I'm going to have to ask different questions, because they have really done good work this morning. That's good, because we have less time than anticipated.

My first question will be for Mr. Nussbaum.

Mr. Nussbaum, I would like you to tell us about prioritizing. One thing that has been discussed is the rail loop, which is a very interesting project. However, I'd like to know what steps have to be followed that we should include in the report on security and sound management of the process.

[Tobi Nussbaum]

Thank you for the question.

I'm going to ask my colleague Alain Miguelez to answer it.

[Alain Miguelez, Vice-President, Capital Planning, National Capital Commission]

Thank you.

We are working with STO to be prepared, as the federal family. First, we are going to do feasibility studies that will have both an Ontario component that includes Ottawa and the Portage Bridge and a Quebec component.

The study stage will lead to a construction project, which will be the implementation phase. This will be the implementation of an initial phase to have the Ottawa-Gatineau streetcar line go along the Ontario side of the river from its two Gatineau branches and end up near the intersection of Elgin and Wellington Streets.

As well, the National Capital Commission has the mandate to study a subsequent phase for which there is no funding or funding applications at this time, but it would close the loop. It would mean having the streetcar line continue over the Alexandra Bridge back to the Quebec side of the river in the National Capital Region to close the loop in the downtown area.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

As you know, we have heard from witnesses who belong to the Algonquin community. We saw in their testimony a need for that community to have inclusion and access. We were even given an explanation of the right to settle and to demonstrate.

Where are you in your talks with the Algonquin community?

[Alain Miguelez]

We are fully aware of the need to include the Algonquin community. In fact, we are doing that at present in connection with our discussions about replacing the Alexandra Bridge. As well, the streetcar line crosses the Portage Bridge and Victoria Island, which is a very important symbolic place for the Algonquin nation. We have incorporated very close consultations with the Algonquin nation into our approach.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

I'm now going to ask the City of Ottawa representatives a question.

Madam Chair, I will ask them the question through you.

We have seen plans regarding the rail loop. It's a very original urban planning idea and I think it's quite exciting.

However, what we are thinking about is security. Obviously, a footbridge is one thing, but a streetcar line brings a lot of passenger traffic.

How can you assure us that it's possible to orchestrate everything, keeping in mind the objective having to do with parliamentarians' security?

[Steve Kanellakos]

Madam Chair, that's a very relevant question. Unfortunately, though, those technical difficulties the member presented have not yet been analyzed. That's part of the work that's going to be happening in the future with the studies we'll be undertaking.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Chair, I'm going to ask the City of Ottawa representatives another question.

Were you involved in the preparation ahead of the convoy arriving? Were you aware of the convoy arriving?

[Steve Kanellakos]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. The audio broke up at the very end. My apologies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Lucky you—it's actually a question for Mr. Leclerc.

[Patrick Leclerc]

In terms of the security component, including a streetcar line and closing Wellington Street between Bank and Elgin Streets makes it possible to remove vehicles, particularly private cars. Of course, the effect of that is to improve security, and that's also what we have observed in the other cities. A streetcar line is fixed and is relatively visible, and it goes by at much longer intervals than all the vehicles driving by. As a result, it improves security.

Concerning security west of Bank Street, the studies refer, among other things, to a pedestrian tunnel to handle crossings at the various intersections. That is how we plan to mitigate the risk. However, as was mentioned earlier, that aspect will be addressed in the pre-project analyses that are to begin once the funding is granted by the governments.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Blaney, the floor is yours.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Of course, as always, through you, I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here.

I have a few questions, and I know we then have to head out to vote.

My first question will be for both the City of Ottawa and the STO.

I'm from British Columbia. In Vancouver, we saw a lot of business increase downtown when they made it more cycle- and transit-friendly. We know that a lot of businesses in the area were very concerned that their businesses would suffer, but they actually found the reverse.

I'm just wondering if the city or STO has done any work or research on the impact on businesses and tourism if the streets are closed to car traffic and on how to move forward with changing that whole energy equation of being so car-centric—which is so important, especially with GHGs—and transitioning to a more friendly way of travelling. I'm just wondering if there's any work that's been done on that.

I'll go to the city first.