Evidence of meeting #31 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was able.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Stéphan Aubé  Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons
Michel Patrice  Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons
Eric Janse  Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons
Charles Robert  Clerk of the House of Commons
Dona Cadman  Former Member of Parliament, As an Individual
Léo Duguay  President, Canadian Association of Former Parliamentarians

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

No. I don't have anything from them.

During COVID, the conversations with my counterparts at the provincial level were constant. Alberta's Speaker Cooper and I became good friends because we were kind of scrambling to try to figure out how we were going to do things. That was the same with all of these Speakers. We were just trying to figure out how we could get these things done.

Now it seems to have gone live for the provinces.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Thank you for that exchange.

It's kind of interesting because when we're talking amongst each other, we like to talk directly to each other, but in the House we tend go through the Speaker and, in this committee, through the Chair.

Ms. Sahota, you have five minutes.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

My first question will be for Mr. Aubé.

I want to know more about any of the security concerns. In the last studies working up to implementing hybrid Parliament, or virtual Parliament at the beginning, there were many questions about concerns about the voting app and whether it would be secure or whether our vote could end up being somehow intercepted.

It seems to us that a good job has been done, but I want to know from your end, have there been issues on the back end that have caused you worry?

11:40 a.m.

Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons

Stéphan Aubé

Through you, Madam Chair, thank you for the question, Madam Sahota.

IT security had to be remodelled in the context of a virtual Parliament. We took major steps to ensure that the proceedings would be secured and also that the members use of all of the devices had been secured. As you remember, when we were sitting in front of this committee we had actually tabled our security posture, which was validated by the national security partners. We are continuing that. We still have these relationships in play.

We continue monitoring our infrastructure. I would say it's not related to hybrid. Every day we face threats from an IT security perspective. We react to them in the same way that we do with hybrid. From a hybrid perspective, we take a proactive approach because sometimes we have witnesses who are travelling, so we want to make sure it is the proper people participating in the meetings. We've put in place a proactive approach. We feel very strong about our security posture.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Thank you, and thank you for all the work you have been doing because it has been seamless on our end.

For myself, I enjoy being there in person. I want to apologize for not being able to be in person today. I was extremely sick yesterday and couldn't even get out of bed. I didn't think the people on the plane would appreciate me being on with them. I am starting to see the light again, so I hopefully can be with all of you tomorrow.

My next question goes to the Speaker.

I was glad to hear you say there are certain things we should be considering, like whether certain roles need to be in person. You have said that perhaps the Speaker is something to consider. I think that's something Parliament has also considered from the beginning of time. Certain rules have already put in place, like deputy positions. There's a deputy whip. As for myself, there are deputy speakers and deputy House leaders. I think that has been implemented just in case somebody cannot be there. That's interesting.

I also wanted to get your perspective on the issue of whether democracy works. So far, have you felt that our democratic system has worked under this hybrid Parliament?

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

There's no question. The participation and enthusiasm has come in from all sides. I haven't heard anyone say, “Okay, we're going to stop democracy from working.” Overall, people have been working well together.

I think Canadians can be very proud of the system we have. There are people who prefer to come in person, which has worked out well. Even during the depth of COVID, with the limitations, everyone got the chance to speak and to put their opinions forward, within the limitations and parameters set by Parliament.

We serve as an example of how democracy can continue to work regardless of what's thrown at it.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

For other jurisdictions that have gone back because they may have only had temporary provisions in place, like our Parliament does, I want to know what your conversations were with them.

I have taken the opportunity to have some conversations with members from the U.K. They have told me that politics really got in the way. Earlier, my colleagues wondered what Canadians will think and whether it is a good time to doing this, optically.

I'm wondering whether our committee's focus should be on optics or if it really should be on whether we can continue doing this in a responsible way. We see now that most parliamentarians want to be in Parliament. It is generally only that odd time when a situation comes up that could make it unsafe for everyone or other situations come up around their own health and family issues.

Do you have comments on that?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

You will have to reserve the opportunity to comment at a later time.

Thank you, Ms. Sahota. I see you sniffling, but I hope you're feeling better.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

I'm much better.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Good.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I will be very quick, Madam Chair.

I have four questions to ask. After that, I'm going to talk about something that happened last week.

How many interpreters are needed to keep the number of committee meetings at 57?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons

Stéphan Aubé

Madam Chair, I don't have the exact numbers.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Could you give them to me?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons

Stéphan Aubé

We can give them to you, but you should ask the Translation Bureau representatives when they appear on Thursday.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I'm going to do that, because I'd also like to know how many interpreters were there before the pandemic and how many are needed to keep up the pace. I'm going to need to know that when we hear from them.

I will now talk about the action plan. We keep talking about the scarcity of labour and the lack of interpreters. What is your action plan?

11:45 a.m.

Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons

Stéphan Aubé

I'm not trying to dodge the question, but again, the Translation Bureau is in the best position to answer you. We are asking the same questions as you are, and we expect to get answers soon. So I would ask you to ask them the same question this week. That will be the best way to proceed.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

They already have the questions, so they will already have the answers.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

Parliament uses the services of the Translation Bureau. We use the services of its staff. They are not employees of Parliament, but of the bureau.

We work closely with the bureau. We ask them to provide a certain service, but it is not always easy for them to provide it.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Madam Chair, I would like to explain what we went through last week. It is good for the witnesses because we would not be here today with a consensus had we not all been present.

Indeed, the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs tends to have constructive exchanges. We were able to come to an agreement to carry out the order of the House of Commons. It was done, I can confirm that. There were four of us, we took a break and we were able to come to an agreement. That's a real-life example, and I could name many more.

Since I have 20 or 30 seconds left, I would like to make a comment—

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

I'm sorry, but you have no time left.

11:45 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

It's too quick.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Ms. Blaney, you have two and a half minutes.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

Thank you, Chair. My question, through you, is this: Is how members participate tracked?

Do you track who participates virtually compared to who participates...? There's no tracking at all...? Okay. Thanks.

One of the things that I'm also curious about is that there was a pilot project of interpreters working remotely. I'm just curious if there were qualification requirements for that and if they were qualified for that by translation bureau standards. I would hope that you would know the difference.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

Yes. There were serious concerns about the quality of interpretation, but to give you a bit more detail on what those parameters were, I'll leave it to....

Would Monsieur Aubé—

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

What I'm trying to understand is, were their qualifications the same, of the same rigour, as what is required for the translation bureau?