Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Is it reasonable to ask that we might consider seeing whether somebody has the capability to offer that advice?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I think the job of this committee is to make sure that we get the best system possible and the best recommendations possible. If the committee determines that's what they want, I think it should be looked at.

I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of having a third party look at it. It has to be an impartial third party who is willing to look at all the options and recommend what they believe is best.

Personally, I don't see a problem with it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

Mr. Gerretsen, you have five minutes.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you very much.

With respect to Mr. Calkins' last question about ensuring security virtually, is the House in any way able to ensure that a member who participates in person in a committee meeting does not release any of that in camera information once they leave the committee room?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I can answer that one. I think the answer is obviously no.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

How do we ensure the credibility of committee meetings? Is it not based on the honour of the member being assumed?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I think we're talking about two different things. One is on the honour of the member and the other one is somebody eavesdropping online. I think these are two things.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Aubé's response was specifically about how he is unable to determine what happens on the other end. If I am participating from my living room, he's unable to know if there's somebody out of the screenshot whom I have let listen in on a meeting.

In a similar vein, it's not possible to ensure that I don't leave a meeting that I personally have been involved in and share that information, right? To that end, all of our committee meetings, as with our proceedings in the House, are all based on the honour of the individual. Am I correct in that?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

There is no question.

Mr. Aubé, did you want to add to that?

[Stéphan Aubé]

No. I would agree with that statement.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Please address your comments through the chair.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Right. Of course, Madam Chair.

She is very, very good at this. Mr. Speaker, I would be concerned if I were you. I think she's eyeing your job.

My next question, Madam Chair, through you, would be with respect to....

I know that early on in the pandemic, when the hybrid provisions were implemented, there were a few incidents in which individuals immediately jumped at the opportunity to abuse that. For example, if I recall correctly, one member participated from Oklahoma—out of the country. Another member participated from a boat on Lake Simcoe, if I remember correctly.

I'm wondering if there's any way to be able to control that an individual is actually following the rules, i.e., participating from within Canada, which is what our rules state. Is there any way to ensure that, or, again, are we relying on the member to do the honourable thing, which is to obey the rules?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

When we talk about the honourable member, we talk about honourable members, people who are sticking to the rules and trying to make sure that everything works well. Yes, we're relying on the individual. That's from a personal point of view.

From a technical point of view, it's something that I would like to let Mr. Aubé answer, because I know one of the parameters is that you have to be in Canada. Lake Simcoe is in Canada. That's not a problem, so you could be fishing and participating, which I'm not sure—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That's as the rules are stated right now.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

It's as the rules indicate right now, but Oklahoma is not in Canada. There are two parameters, and it's making sure the individuals know what the rules are.

Mr. Aubé, on technical parameters, I don't know if there's anything there that we can enforce.

[Stéphan Aubé]

If I can add through you, Madam Chair, we had the technical capabilities, sir, but, if you remember, in time we made the decision for the honourable member, if they were not in Canada, to identify themselves as not being there, because we didn't want to prevent a member from participating in an event.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I think it's fair to say, through you, Madam Chair, whatever is adopted in a hybrid model we would look to apply in terms of an individual who is participating in the House. It needs to come from the same perspective of doing things in an honourable fashion as it would if they're doing it on hybrid.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

If it's being done dishonourably, then our system doesn't work. Yes, it is up to the honour of the individual. I'm sure that Canadian people do not elect dishonourable people.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Do I have any time left? I'll give it to Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

How much time is there, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

You have 15 seconds.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It's all yours.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Through you, Madam Chair, to Speaker Rota, you said that a Parliament may continue to function regardless of what's thrown at it. I thought that was really insightful.

In your opinion, is this study really just a matter of looking at business continuity for our Parliament in times of crisis?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That's exactly it.

It's not only in crisis but how you want to look at adapting to what's out there. That's something that's going to be key to the report that comes out of this committee, in my opinion, because we'll be able to look at it, or parliamentarians will be able to look at it, and say, "Okay, this is the recommendation so we can continue to make sure democracy works in Canada."