Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 20th, 2022

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to welcome all the witnesses here today. Thank you so much for your expert insight.

I want to focus on two things. First, I want to follow up on Mr. Cooper's comment.

There's a report entitled “The Remotely Representative House? Lesson Learning From the Hybrid Commons”, by Dr. Jessica Smith and Professor Sarah Childs, with regard to what you do with a member of Parliament who decides to participate virtually only. I'm wondering if you would agree with this statement: “As is now, the electorate will decide whether they are well-represented by their...MP’s way of working.”

[Catherine Clark]

I believe that we live in a democracy, that the electorate is intelligent, and that if their member of Parliament is not doing their job, they will know it. That person will swiftly learn the will of the people.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much.

On that note, I'm glad we're talking about the opportunity to reform the way we do what we do. We've been talking a lot about flexibility.

I want to thank you, Ms. Stewart, for bringing that up, because we're talking about a hybrid Parliament, which is a blend of virtual and in-person. We seem to be always talking about these two extremes, but what we're talking about here is “life happens”. If something were to happen and you need to be in your riding.... Day care calls; your child is sick and no one else can watch the child, so you need to be there. Things happen in life.

Ms. Clark, you mentioned being the daughter of a parliamentarian. We've heard from other parliamentarians and we've heard from other witnesses, but we haven't heard from a family member of a parliamentarian. In your expert opinion, having lived through this, would you recommend a hybrid Parliament in terms of assisting parliamentarians and their families in being able to still continue to do what we need to do in both parts of our lives?

[Catherine Clark]

Yes. In fact, not only do I recommend a hybrid Parliament in terms of assisting families, but I also believe that it assists the electorate. I believe that having a member of Parliament who is able to represent the people of their constituency from home, if in fact they cannot for some reason make it to Ottawa or from Ottawa, allows them the best of both worlds.

In fact, that is what a hybrid system is about. It is not about never showing up in the House of Commons. It is about allowing people to have the flexibility to do their jobs to the very best of their abilities.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I'm not sure if Equal Voice and Samara want to jump in on that as well.

[Sabreena Delhon]

If I may, I think it's important to understand that the virtual option is not a means to shirk your duties. In our considerable interviews with former MPs, the commitment and dedication to public service are paramount. It rings true across all of our respondents.

However, we have seen a level of frustration with the lack of standardization in administrative and operational processes in the House, and a sense of shock and surprise, particularly from those in the field of business or other entrepreneurial areas, about why cost-effective modern tools to organize calendars and schedules are not being better utilized in this space.

There's a real opportunity here to increase the contributions from MPs, to see to their mental health and well-being and to foster new norms for cohesion, collegiality and connection among MPs and their colleagues.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much.

Equal Voice, would you like to jump in? If not, I have another question.

[Eleanor Fast]

I agree with what's been said and, please, your other question would be great.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

In terms of hybrid, we have extended the motion for hybrid Parliament until June 2023.

Every member of PROC is sitting here today. We have the option right now, yet it's not all anarchy; we're not all on a screen right now. We're here with you and we're able to hear from witnesses who are participating virtually today because we have the technology. Do you feel that this committee would turn into pure anarchy because all of a sudden we allow for hybrid, when we already have that in place?

[Jennifer Stewart]

I do not. I think it's extremely important to remember that people who seek to serve their country are doing so altruistically, and they want to serve their constituency. However, as a businesswoman, I have taken calls from the hallways in CHEO before. I'm still able to conduct my business, and I'm still also able to attend to a family emergency. I think that is really the crux of the issue here today: it's flexibility and it's ensuring that you modernize and truly create a 21st century House of Commons.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Gaudreau, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First, I would like to tell you that I am an MP, a mother of two children, and an entrepreneur. I have two businesses. At present, I look after my 15‑year-old child, since my husband is out of the country while I am here. I am able to travel and I have solutions.

There was mention earlier of the 26‑week parliamentary calendar and questions of accessibility and facilitation. Why should this be a two-tier system? We had a colleague explain to us how she had been reprimanded and criticized because she had her baby with her in her work as an MP.

I am afraid, and I would put the following question to you: if my husband is out of the country, do I have to stay home with my child and fulfil my role as an MP via Zoom, when there are a lot of other options? What message does that send to people about the dual role some people play? Does this mean that we cannot mix our responsibilities to our business with our role as parliamentarians?

On that point, I would like to hear comments from representatives of Equal Voice.

[Eleanor Fast]

Thank you.

Yes, I think that hybrid really.... As has been said, everybody is here today, and yet, if there were a circumstance where someone simply could not be here, you would still have the opportunity to be participating in this meeting, hearing from the witnesses and not missing anything.

As has been said by my colleagues here as well, hybrid has been adopted very widely around the world, in the business world and in academia. Actually, I'm giving a guest lecture at Queen's University this afternoon, and I'm able to do that remotely because I'm here.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have to stop you there, Ms. Fast, because I do not have a lot of time.

I agree completely, but we have to say it like it is. As an entrepreneur, I hold a majority of my meetings in the evening or at night by Zoom. As a parliamentarian, I sit 26 weeks a year. We were talking about convenience and arrangements. If moms or even dads were offered everything they needed, tomorrow morning, to support them and facilitate their role as parliamentarians, which requires that they be present 26 weeks a year, I would remind us, would that change things?

We all agree that it is possible to work in hybrid mode. However, people must not have a tendency to say to themselves that they are going to stay home in case something happens, nor must that mean that people have to work even when they are sick.

I would like you to tell me quickly what you think about that, Ms. Clark.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I am sorry, but your speaking time is up.

Ms. Blaney, the floor is yours.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm married to a politician as well, so I have a husband who is rarely home because of his political commitment. One of the biggest challenges when our kids were still young enough that they needed caring for was trying to figure out how to balance that when I had to physically be away.

I also want to add—and I think this is what I really would like to hear you talk about—that I represent a rural riding. It's the third-largest in British Columbia, and really, by any standards, it's not that huge. It's just under 60,000 square kilometres. There are many times when I would come home for the weekend and wouldn't get to be with my family because I was landing in a different community, doing all the work that I needed to do in that area and then coming back.

I'm wondering if you could speak to the reality of the benefits that it would mean for people if they had at least an opportunity to work virtually if there is high need in their riding and if they have a large riding, because right now we know that flights are getting harder. Some of the ridings across this country.... Last session, I was not able to go home very often. It's much better now, but things happened that made it really hard for me to get home, so I was actually not at home as often, because I couldn't fly until Saturday and would not get there until the afternoon, and then I would have to leave first thing on Sunday morning.

I'm wondering if we can talk about the challenges that families experience because of this distance, and how most of the time people are still here, but this allows for those moments in life when you just need to be there because your partner is on an emergency somewhere.

I don't have a lot of time left. I'll start with Equal Voice.

[Eleanor Fast]

Yes, distance is a big issue for women who are considering running for office. We hear from many women who attend our training and campaign schools that they're choosing to run at the municipal or provincial level because of the concerns about both the time it takes to fly and also how far away from home they will be if they're running federally.

Obviously, that doesn't apply to everybody, but it is something that we repeatedly hear.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I think this is really about just providing a little more choice, and I think that is really important.

Oh, my time is up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Ms. Stewart.

[Jennifer Stewart]

I think it's just about the flexibility. Again, as a mother and a business owner—my husband is also a business owner—and the daughter of a pretty incredible mom who was a judge and a mother to four children, you want to be present in your professional life. You want to put in place concessions, like babysitters and relying on family and your partner, when at all possible, but there are those moments when it's not possible.

In those moments, we require this flexibility, and that's why I strongly support the hybrid Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Just so you know, I keep time for everybody's round, so when somebody gets a bit of extra time.... In the first round, Ms. Blaney was done within 18 seconds of it, so I just let her have the generosity that I gave everybody else. Thank you.

I really do want to say that this was fun. It was really nice to have everyone here, and I loved the exchange of questions, but our time has run out. If there is anything else you want to add, you can always send it in writing to the clerk, saying, “I know that Madame Gaudreau would like the answer to her question.”

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

If you want to contribute something, please just send us a note in writing.

Thank you so much for your time today. Please keep well and keep safe.

We're going to suspend for a minute ahead of the next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Welcome back for our second panel.

Joining us today are Philippe Fournier, assistant professor, audiologist, Université Laval, by video conference; Kilian G. Seeber, professor, University of Geneva, also by video conference; and Darren Tse, assistant professor, department of otolaryngology and head and neck surgery, University of Ottawa.

Welcome.

We will start with Professor Fournier.

Please go ahead.

[Philippe Fournier, Assistant Professor, Audiologist, Université Laval, As an Individual]

Members of the committee, it is a privilege to be invited to appear as a witness.

My name is Philippe Fournier. I am an audiologist and a professor and researcher in the rehabilitation department of the faculty of medicine at Université Laval. The objective of my research is to better understand the mechanisms and consequences of various hearing disorders, such as tinnitus, which takes the form of whistling or buzzing in the ears, hyperacusis, which is reported as hypersensitivity to loud sounds, and other symptoms such as the feeling of having blocked ears and ear pain.

Because of my research in this field, I have an interest in the population of interpreters who reported experiencing these symptoms following brief, loud and unexpected acoustic events. Although there is no clear consensus, acoustic shock is generally defined as the appearance of auditory and otologic symptoms such as tinnitus, hyperacusis and pain, following brief, loud and unexpected exposure to a sound. The symptoms may appear immediately or after several days or even weeks. It should be noted that the nature and intensity of the symptoms vary widely from one individual to another. This phenomenon was first described among call centre operators. They reported the appearance of distressing symptoms following acoustic incidents in their listening device system. The pathophysiological mechanisms responsible for the appearance of these symptoms are unknown at present.

In the course of my research, I have collaborated with the International Association of Conference Interpreters and the Translation Bureau of Canada. They have reported a rise in the prevalence of these symptoms among interpreters since the start of the pandemic, and, coincidentally, after web conferencing platforms started to be used. The phenomenon at the source of this increase is not known, although various hypotheses have been formulated.

I am also collaborating at present on a research project with the aim of assessing the hearing health of Translation Bureau interpreters. The project is led by my colleague Josée Lagacé, who is a professor at the University of Ottawa, and her team.

I am prepared to answer all questions that committee members ask me today as best I can, based on my knowledge.

Thank you.