Evidence of meeting #35 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was interpreters.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Nathan Cooper  Speaker, Legislative Assembly of Alberta
Matthew Hamlyn  Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
David McGill  Clerk and Chief Executive, Scottish Parliament
Siwan Davies  Director of Senedd Business, Welsh Parliament

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 35 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. The committee is meeting today to continue our review on the House of Commons virtual hybrid proceedings provisions, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022.

Our first panel consists of representatives from legislatures and Houses in other jurisdictions. We have witnesses from the U.K. House of Commons, the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Parliament and the Legislative Assembly of Alberta.

The government House leader will join us in the second panel.

I would like to remind all members, as well as witnesses, that all comments should go through the chair.

I understand that everyone who is joining us online has undergone the pre-meeting connectivity audio test.

Before starting with our first panel, I want to get the draft study budget that was distributed to committee members last week approved. Are there any concerns with the draft budget that the clerk sent around?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you.

I would like to welcome the witnesses. From the House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we have Matthew Hamlyn. From the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, we have Speaker Nathan Cooper. From the Scottish Parliament, we have David McGill. From the Welsh Parliament, we have ​Siwan Davies.

We will start with Speaker Cooper, please. Welcome to PROC.

11 a.m.

Nathan Cooper Speaker, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Good morning, Chair, and thank you very much for having me this morning. It's a great pleasure and honour this morning to be with you, as well as the rest of the committee and of course the other panellists.

I hope to briefly describe this morning some of the steps we took in Alberta to ensure that the Alberta assembly could meet safely, yet continue its parliamentary business during the pandemic.

Throughout the pandemic, the assembly did not adopt a hybrid or virtual Parliament. Instead, the assembly increased its sitting days during the pandemic as compared to previous years. As well, the assembly moved for a brief period of time to an opportunity for members to vote remotely, but that was only for recorded divisions.

The assembly had just begun its second sitting on February 25, 2020. The budget was introduced two days later, on the 27th, and the legislative committees had undertaken the initial steps, or the first week of the main estimates process, when the first presumptive case of coronavirus was reported in Alberta.

Following a constituency week, the session resumed on March 16, and the night before—a Sunday night, I might add—the government announced the immediate closure of schools, and, within two days, a public health emergency. Immediately the assembly took steps to ensure that the necessary protocols were put into place for the sitting to continue and do so in a safe manner.

The immediate priorities of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta involved adapting rules through the passage of a temporary standing order amendment by the way of government motion to allow for the following: a revised budget process; new chamber protocols to accommodate new public health requirements, which included social distancing, which in turn were facilitated by a motion that was adopted to allow members to sit, speak or vote from any location inside the chamber; and flexibility in terms of extending the period of adjournment and also potentially allowing the sitting to proceed past the prescribed hours, including sitting on Fridays or through the weekend, as well as the introduction of a revised sessional calendar. Consideration of the main estimates was transferred to a committee of supply that went on to consider the remaining nine ministries that had yet to be reviewed.

The pandemic certainly challenged the legislature to solve the puzzle of how best to conduct its business during a public health crisis. We all know that different jurisdictions took different approaches during this time. I think that many Alberta legislators, especially those on the government side, believed that they had a duty to be in the chamber to show the public they were on the job during the emergency and were also governing.

I'm of the opinion that it increased the ability of private members, in particular the ability of members of the opposition, to hold the government to account, and as such to provide the individuals they represent with the best possible oversight, which only in-person sittings can provide.

Throughout the pandemic, social distancing and other public safety health measures were considered and were observed in the chamber. Temporary changes to the standing orders and the rules were brought in to allow greater flexibility in the schedule of the assembly's business.

It was interesting to see what happened in Alberta. Unlike other Canadian jurisdictions, where the number of sitting days was reduced, in the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, we sat more following the declaration of the pandemic than in other jurisdictions. The assembly, in fact, sat more days than it would have otherwise sat if it had stuck to its original calendar.

The Legislative Assembly of Alberta was one of the few jurisdictions across Canada that sat regularly during the first wave of the pandemic. The assembly sat for a total of 41 days in the first six months of the fiscal year; historically, the average for spring sitting was closer to 30 days.

While it's important—

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

11:05 a.m.

Speaker, Legislative Assembly of Alberta

Nathan Cooper

Go ahead.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Thank you.

We look forward to hearing more about what you have to say during the question-and-answer period.

We will now move to Matthew Hamlyn. Welcome to PROC.

October 25th, 2022 / 11:05 a.m.

Matthew Hamlyn Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Thank you very much, Chair.

This is my second appearance before the committee. I came here in April 2020, when we had just started the hybrid proceedings in the U.K. House of Commons, so I won't describe all that again. I thought it might be of interest to the committee to know what we've done since then, as I know you are looking at the legacy of the hybrid or COVID-related proceedings.

In the U.K. House of Commons, we finished all remote participation by members in July 2021. We finished remote participation by members in committee meetings at the same time. The House of Lords has continued with remote proceedings by a small number of members on health or disability grounds, but that is a very small number, in the very low double figures.

Select committees have continued, as I say, with in-person sittings since then, but we've noticed a significant increase in the numbers of witnesses appearing remotely at panels like this. That's, I think, a very significant legacy of our COVID-19 period.

In many cases, more than half of the witnesses are now regularly appearing remotely, and that's actually been to the convenience of committees. It's been easier to pull together panels from a different part of the country or over the world at shorter notice. It's also made it easier for witnesses to appear without having to come all the way to London to appear in person. That's probably increased the range of the kinds of people who are giving evidence to committees. That's a bonus.

The only other significant change in our proceedings that's lasted since the pandemic period is in the way we record the names of MPs voting in divisions, which we used to do by—

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

On a point of order, Madam Chair.

11:10 a.m.

Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Matthew Hamlyn

I'm sorry. I'm stopping there, because I was interrupted—

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Go ahead, Marie-Hélène.

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Madam Chair, I am very concerned about the health of our interpreters and right now we are told that it is difficult to interpret.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

I was told that the sound tests had been done.

Can we do another sound test?

When I'm speaking, is it okay?

There is no interpretation. The sound quality is not good on his end.

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Madam Chair, it's not because I have an opinion on our study. It's really because I care about the health of interpreters.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

I'm just going to limit our time on this conversation.

I'm not sure, Mr. Hamlyn, if it is the mike being too close or just the quality of your headset, because this is a conversation we're having in Canada. In Canada, we have two official languages. Speaking two official languages on a regular basis is a common practice, and that's not something that many other jurisdictions experience. Interpretation is just part of the way we operate.

Can you try moving your microphone a little bit further from your mouth? Let me see if that helps or not. Are you able to turn your microphone up?

11:10 a.m.

Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Matthew Hamlyn

I can try both these things. I've never had this problem before, so I'm sorry.

I've turned the microphone up as far as it can go.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Would you take the microphone and move it between your nose and your top lip, just so you look like a pilot properly?

11:10 a.m.

Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Matthew Hamlyn

Like that?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Yes. Tell me how the weather is. Tell me how your day goes.

11:10 a.m.

Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Matthew Hamlyn

My day was going fine—

11:10 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:10 a.m.

Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Matthew Hamlyn

—until about now.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Welcome to Canada.

11:10 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:10 a.m.

Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Matthew Hamlyn

I'm extremely sorry if I'm causing trouble for the interpreters.

11:10 a.m.

Strategic Director, Chamber Business Team, House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Matthew Hamlyn

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

No, no—it's not you; it's us. I want us to continue having a good day, so we're going to continue with your comments. I will give you back your time.

Mr. Hamlyn, the floor is yours.