Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 16th, 2023

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I would actually like some clarification on the issue of the vigilance that we discussed in committee.

We've heard a lot of about reporting from individuals. What's the situation now? As I understand it, everything that can happen in terms of a cyber-attack or an in-person attack is monitored. That said, what about the people who may be targeted by threats? Is there a new way of doing that in the employee development program?

[Michel Patrice]

Indeed, there are a number of sources of information to ensure the safety of MPs and parliamentary staff. The member's office or the member themself can contact the Office of the Sergeant-at-Arms. In terms of monitoring social media or what is being said about any of you, the Office of the Sergeant-at-Arms is very vigilant. Our partners can also alert us to threats.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I lost some time earlier, so I'm just going to take a quick 20 seconds to thank you. I see the contribution you're making and the hard work you're doing, whether it's ensuring safety and security or maintaining vigilance. It's worth mentioning, and I thank you for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We'll give you two minutes in the next round.

Ms. Blaney, you have the floor.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I like your tone today. It's great to see.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. I have a few questions. The first one is around security concerns for members of Parliament.

We know there has been a significant change since the pandemic. What I'm wondering is whether you have the capacity and resources to respond to that change. What changes are you noticing? One thing I've seen very clearly is a fairly clear protocol on how to support and protect members of Parliament and the people who work in the precinct. However, things have also changed in the constituencies. These are particular challenges.

I'm wondering whether you have the resources and if there are any growing concerns in this area.

[Patrick McDonell]

Through you, Madam Chair, I believe we have the resources. We have different programs for members of Parliament in their constituencies. We have a residential security program. We have a constituency office security program. We have an outreach program with 91 police forces of jurisdiction. We're in contact, when there is a threat against a member of Parliament, with the RCMP's protective operations centre. As the deputy clerk mentioned, we have the ability to monitor social media and identify threats or even the harassment of our members of Parliament.

Currently, yes, I believe we have the resources.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

I also have some questions around cybersecurity.

That's an interesting one, and I know it's ever-changing. I'm curious. We had an issue in this committee not too long ago, when we had some witnesses from Alliance Canada Hong Kong. All of a sudden, we started having a lot of challenges. There were some assumptions made that perhaps it was foreign interference. I don't expect you to be able to tell me in detail what may have happened there, but I'm wondering whether we have the resources to respond to that.

What are the protocols around having international witnesses? That was part of the challenge, that we had somebody streaming in from Hong Kong.

How are members alerted if a concern has come forward?

[Stéphan Aubé]

Through you, Madam Chair, I'm aware of the issue that happened in this committee. I can inform the committee that it wasn't a security issue. It was actually an operational issue that caused the event to happen, impacting the committee and the witness. That's the first answer. I could go into detail. Basically, a configuration issue between two rooms led to microphones starting and stopping. It wasn't linked to a security issue. Our systems in-room are completely isolated from these types of events, so they don't happen through the Internet and at the possible risk of remote participants.

Now, you're asking whether members.... Members are well protected when they travel. We provide the proper infrastructure and tools for them to participate and do their jobs abroad when travelling. Having said that, when there are witnesses.... I can't secure their device or environment, but we certainly secure the connectivity back from that participant to the House of Commons, in order to ensure we are secured. The environment has been configured, planned and assessed by our people and national security partners to ensure these types of incidents don't happen.

I'm not saying we're not exposed, but we've certainly done what we needed to do to minimize threats and risk and to protect these environments.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

My next question is around interpretation.

Of course, one of the important things we've done in this place is expand the ability to have interpretation for some indigenous languages. I know this has been an interesting process for us to go through. However, we've also heard some concerns from some of our members who use indigenous languages to communicate: Information is being interpreted into English, and then it goes from English to French. That's definitely a challenging thing for time.

One of my questions is this: How are we working to make that more effective? A second question is this: Now that we're expanding interpretation to virtual interpretation, I'm wondering whether we will eventually look at indigenous languages. I would imagine that, if we could find interpreters from across the country, they may be able to do more of that work in this place.

[Eric Janse]

Maybe I'll start, and then hand it off to Stéphan. You're absolutely right. There are two components to this challenge. There's the technical component, which Stéphan can maybe address, and then there's the human resources component.

There is the ability for members to use indigenous languages in the House. There's a process that has been put in place to make a request for it, and then through the translation bureau, we see if we can find interpreters. In most cases, we can. There are some cases where it's just not possible, but we're hoping, yes, more technology might be a solution to expand the pool of indigenous language interpreters.

Just very quickly, I'll go to Stéphan on the technical side.

[Stéphan Aubé]

The technology in the rooms and in the chamber allows for this to happen. We can have multiple languages. The real discussion will be around the impacts to other products that we have, such as the Hansard and broadcasting. We just need to make sure it's planned with the appropriate time to make this happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We'll now go for five minutes to Mr. Cooper, followed by Mrs. Romanado.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for being here as well as to all of the witnesses.

I'm going to direct my questions to whoever is in the best position to answer my questions, although I think it will likely be Mr. McDonell.

In answer to a question posed by Mr. Nater, Mr. McDonell, you stated that the July 20, 2021, intelligence assessment concerning member of Parliament Michael Chong being targeted by an accredited Beijing diplomat at the Toronto consulate was recently shared with the House of Commons.

Does any witness have any insight why that was only recently shared with the House of Commons and not shared back in July 2021?

[Patrick McDonell]

We didn't have an agreement in place with CSIS at that time for the sharing of intelligence, us with them or them with us. We're a non-government department, so it created somewhat of a challenge before that MOU was signed.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

When did that agreement come into effect?

[Patrick McDonell]

It was on March 30 of this year.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you for that.

Has any information from CSIS or any other intelligence agency been provided to the House of Commons that would indicate that any other members of Parliament are being targeted by Beijing or any other hostile foreign state?

[Patrick McDonell]

Yes.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Can you elaborate on the number? Again, I'm not asking you to name the individual members, but can you provide a number?

[Patrick McDonell]

No.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Why is it that you cannot provide a number?

[Patrick McDonell]

It's because the information was given to us in confidence by CSIS. Under the terms and agreements of the MOU, I'm not at liberty to disclose the information at this time.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Okay.

Is there a protocol in place to inform members of Parliament when the House of Commons receives this information from CSIS?

[Patrick McDonell]

It is my understanding that CSIS will be providing that information to any MP who is targeted by any foreign government.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

There is no protocol in place. Is that your answer?