Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 16th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Good morning, everyone. I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 73 of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. The committee is meeting today to study the main estimates for 2023-24.

I've just been asked by the clerk to share that sometimes when we're speaking, we have our earpiece in our hand and it's moving around the microphone. That causes a feedback loop for the interpreters. Yesterday we had some interpreters who will not be able to provide the service anymore because of the damage that was done. Once again, I'm going to continue reiterating my point that one person speaks at a time and that we be mindful that we are a country with two official languages. We can always strive to do better.

We have with us today the Honourable Anthony Rota, Speaker of the House of Commons; Mr. Eric Janse, Acting Clerk of the House of Commons; Michel Patrice, deputy clerk of administration; and Paul St George, chief financial officer. From the Parliamentary Protective Service we have Larry Brookson, director; Éric Savard, chief financial officer; and Robyn Daigle, chief human resources officer.

Mr. Speaker, you have up to 10 minutes for an opening statement, after which we will proceed to questions from the committee members. I welcome you to give me any extra time that you do not want to use.

The floor is yours, Mr. Speaker. Welcome.

[The Honourable Anthony Rota, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee. It's my pleasure to be here today.

As Speaker of the House of Commons, I will be presenting the main estimates for fiscal year 2023-24 for the House of Commons and the Parliamentary Protective Service. These funds are required to allow both institutions to support the important work of members in their various roles as parliamentarians.

I am joined by officials from both organizations.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

With me here today is Eric Janse, acting clerk of the House of Commons; Michel Patrice, deputy clerk, Administration; and Paul St George, chief financial officer.

Also with me are Larry Brookson, Éric Savard and Robyn Daigle, whose roles have already been mentioned. All these people will be available to answer questions from committee members.

I will begin by outlining key elements of the 2023-24 main estimates for the House of Commons that were tabled in the chamber on February 15, 2023.

The main estimates total $597.1 million. This represents a net increase of $34.1 million compared with the 2022-23 main estimates. I want to highlight that the main estimates were reviewed and approved by the Board of Internal Economy at its meeting of December 7, 2022.

I will present the main estimates for the House of Commons according to three major categories, in line with the handout that you received. The financial impact associated with these categories represents the year-over-year changes from the 2022-23 main estimates. The three categories are board-approved initiatives, cost of living and inflationary increases, and miscellaneous other items.

I will begin with the funding of $4.2 million for the board-approved initiatives. On December 1, 2022, the board approved $1.9 million for the professional development of employees of members, House officers and national caucus research offices as a permanent and centrally funded initiative. Other board-approved initiatives include $1.3 million in funding for members' security support enhancements.

The board also approved $0.7 million in funding for the establishment of an Accessibility Secretariat to oversee the implementation of the House of Commons Accessibility Plan 2023–2025. Additionally, this category includes net funding of $0.4 million for conferences and assemblies. This includes an amount of $1.2 million in temporary funding for the hosting of the 31st annual session of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe Parliamentary Assembly, offset by approximately $1 million as a result of sunsetting of the funds included in the 2022–2023 main estimates.

I will now turn to cost of living and inflationary increases. This category represents an overall adjustment of $27.1 million.

An annual adjustment to the members' and House officers' office budgets and travel status expense account is based on the adjusted consumer price index—or as we know it, the CPI. In December 2022, the board approved an increase based on the 6% CPI in September of the previous year. The main estimates reflect a corresponding adjustment of $11.7 million.

There are $12.8 million in adjustments for the constituency office lease allocation. In June 2022, the board authorized members to charge to the central budget their constituency office leasing costs of up to $3,000 per month. The board also approved an annual increase to this allocation, based on the adjusted CPI.

Furthermore, members' sessional allowance and additional salaries are statutory in nature and are adjusted every year in accordance with the Parliament of Canada Act. On April 1, 2022, members' sessional allowance and additional salaries were increased by 2%, which translates into an increase of $1.3 million in the estimates.

Economic increases are also essential to recruitment efforts for the House Administration, including the page program. Funding for this is accounted for in the estimates in the amount of $1.1 million.

Let us now turn to the third and final category for the House of Commons, which is other items.

This represents an increase of $2.7 million and includes the following funding: $2.1 million for employee benefit plans; $0.4 million for contributions to members' pension plans, as determined by the Treasury Board; and $0.2 million for the elector supplement adjustment due to the change in the number of members representing densely populated constituencies following the general election of September 2021.

I will now present the 2023–2024 main estimates for the Parliamentary Protective Service.

For the 2023–24 fiscal year, the service requests an increase of 2.9% over the 2022–23 estimates budget, for a total increase of $4 million. The expenditures making up the increase can be grouped under the following four categories: personnel, training facility, inflationary costs, and diversity, inclusion and belonging.

Before I go into the details of each category, it is worth noting that the service strives to meet the needs and expectations of the parliamentary community and effectively fulfill its mandate to protect in a context where threats are ever-changing by focusing on the health, safety and well-being of employees and staying true to its commitment to inclusion, diversity and belonging.

The first of the four categories is personnel, which represents $1.9 million in total. The majority of this amount, $1.4 million, is associated with salary rate increases following the signing of a collective agreement with the protection group of approximately 500 members, and the subsequent extension of these rates to the unrepresented employees of the service, who represent approximately 200 members.

The second category is that of training and represents $1.3 million. Most of these costs are linked to the service's need for a suitable interior training facility.

Inflation-related expenses totalling approximately $0.5 million make up the third category. This amount represents various cost increases passed down to the service by other interdependent parties with whom the service engages through, for example, legal level agreements.

The fourth and final category is that of diversity, inclusion and belonging. Knowledge, awareness and the application of equity, diversity and inclusion are essential to the service's daily work. The sum of $150,000 was earmarked to support the service's efforts in developing tools and initiatives that not only build the service's culture but also serve the parliamentary community, while ensuring pivotal learning and development opportunities along the way.

In closing, the service has delivered conservative estimates that demonstrate a commitment to stabilization and to financial stewardship.

Do you want me to finish off the last three paragraphs, or do you want me to stop there? I thought that beep meant I had to stop.

I got the look.

Boy, I'm going to have to learn that one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

It's not the look, but you're asking me a question you know the answer to.

What do you want me to say, Mr. Speaker? You know how we function in this place and you know resources are very limited. Your table does a really good job of trying to get us extra resources, but we know they are strained right now.

With that, I'm going to go into six-minute rounds, starting with Mr. Nater, followed by Mr. Turnbull and Madam Gaudreau, and ending with Ms. Blaney.

Go ahead, Mr. Nater.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through you, thank you to our witnesses for joining us today.

I want to begin, Mr. Speaker.... We know from past presentations that there are robust sharing agreements in place between corporate security offices and certain law enforcement offices. I'm curious whether similar sharing exists with security intelligence, specifically CSIS. Is there any sharing of information between House security and CSIS?

[Eric Janse, Acting Clerk of the House of Commons, House of Commons]

There is, but perhaps we could ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to come to the table and give a bit more detail. I don't know to what degree that's possible, given the sensitivity of the question.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I joked earlier that Mr. McDonell wasn't with us at the table, so now he's joining us.

[Patrick McDonell, Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons]

Good morning, and thank you for the question.

Through you, Madam Chair, yes, there is an agreement in place with CSIS.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you.

Was the now famous Chong memo from July 2021 ever shared with the House of Commons?

[Patrick McDonell]

It was recently, yes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It was recently, but not in July 2021.

[Patrick McDonell]

No.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you for that.

Would more information sharing improve your job, if you were to receive more regular information sharing from intelligence agencies?

[Patrick McDonell]

We have recently signed a memorandum of understanding with CSIS and ITAC. Yes, it's improving daily.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you for that, Mr. McDonell.

I want to move on. This summer, Parliament will be hosting the annual session of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, of which both Russia and Belarus are members.

I'm curious whether any Canadian tax dollars will be used to roll out the red carpet, so to speak, for Russia and Belarus this summer?

[Eric Janse]

There is, obviously, funding that has been made available to host the conference in general. It's not earmarked for specific countries or specific delegations.

I guess the challenge for all delegates participating in any conference in Canada is whether they can receive those countries that have a requirement to receive a visa to enter Canada to participate in said conference.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Provided that the current government provides visas to the representatives from Belarus and Russia, they will be attending.

[Eric Janse]

That would be my understanding. Yes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Janse.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I believe we would have to have the Minister of Immigration in to answer that question.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you for that, Mr. Speaker.

I want to follow up. Currently, obviously, we are between permanent clerks. Currently, you have the wonderful services of our Acting Clerk, Mr. Janse.

One of the challenges we had with the appointment of the previous permanent clerk was the then-House leader failed to consult with the then-Speaker about that appointment, as well as with the opposition parties.

I'm curious, Mr. Speaker, from your current experience, whether the government has consulted you yet on the permanent process to replace the clerk.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I know there's been talk of putting the process in place, but no, there hasn't been anything that I'm aware of, or there has been no consultation as of yet on the actual replacement. Mr. Janse is doing an excellent job. My understanding, in speaking to the government House leader, is that they are putting thought into it and they want to come up with a process that is transparent and will function well. I'm looking forward to seeing more information on that.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I would just follow up on that. Would you expect that opposition parties and you as Speaker will be consulted as part of that process?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I can tell you what I'd like, but I can't tell you.... Yes, I would like everyone to be consulted. Again, the more transparent it is, the more acceptable it becomes as a process.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I appreciate that for sure.

Following up, then, we do not currently have a permanent law clerk. We haven't for almost a year. Given where we are right now with a minority Parliament and given the fact that we have had a significant question of privilege come before us, I'm curious, Mr. Speaker and Mr. Janse, as to what engagement both of you may have had thus far from the government on the appointment of a permanent law clerk.