Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 18th, 2023

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you. I also understand that when you receive information from authorities, you try to accept it. I understand that you have accepted it, Mr. Soliman.

I have a question about the evidence you've collected. I don't want to know all the details, as I only have a few seconds left. Having said that, do you think the task force was in a position to come to the same conclusion as you, in light of the grey areas where it was impossible to find evidence? When it came out in the open, were you in agreement with the task force?

[Walied Soliman]

The feedback that we received from the leadership of the committee, particularly after the election, led me to conclude that, first, there was not an appreciation for how serious an issue this would be just to have the perception that there is something wrong, let alone fact. Second, I did feel that possibly there was a legislative tool gap, which is something I hope you'll explore.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Mrs. Blaney, you have the floor.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Soliman, to come back to you, I appreciate that you said a couple of times that it wasn't just one country and that there was concern expressed about multiple countries. As we go forward, it is important that we recognize that this is an ever-changing, quickly changing reality, and there are multiple countries that we should be watching very carefully.

I also appreciate that you talked about this not being a partisan issue, because collectively we should all focus on making sure that our systems are as robust as possible to increase the confidence of Canadians. I appreciate that.

You have talked about the task force and the threshold. I heard both of you say very clearly that you went through a very robust process, so after that robust process, when you feel like you've really been checked out, you were expecting an open dialogue that would be helpful.

During the election process and when you were working with the task force, was there any guidance to you on how to work with the multiple campaigns across the country and that, if there were concerns coming from those different ridings across Canada, how that would be fed to the task force? Also, on the other side, if there were a concern, did they ever talk about how you would work with that particular region in addressing it?

[Walied Soliman]

Tausha, would you like to take the first crack at it and then I can jump in?

[Tausha Michaud]

It's a great idea. That makes perfect sense to me. I think Mr. Soliman and I both thought that's exactly what would happen. In the aftermath, particularly of the October 21 meeting that was referenced, that was not at all what happened. I won't speak for Mr. Soliman but for me, but I think it was incredibly disappointing and completely unacceptable because this whole process was set up for that exact reason.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Soliman, is there anything you'd like to add? You have about 25 seconds.

[Walied Soliman]

Go ahead, because I agree with Ms. Michaud.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm just wondering because we currently are seeing some of the realities. We're not seeing people taking part in these systems. If I think of the current leader, he's not getting the CSIS briefings. I'm just concerned that if we don't use those systems, how do we critique them in a meaningful way?

[Walied Soliman]

I think these are things your committee is going to have to look at—other investigations are going to have to look at. I would urge you to not just reflect on actual interference and actual issues, but even just the perception. I would love the outcome of this to be a system where future political candidates and future political chairs, and chiefs of staff and campaign managers have full confidence in the system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

We're going to just give a quick two minutes to Mr. Cooper, followed by Mrs. Romanado.

Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Soliman and Ms. Michaud, I take it that you have been following the proceedings of this committee as they pertain to its study on foreign interference. In that regard is there anything that has been said at this committee by any witness that you would like to correct the record on?

[Walied Soliman]

I have not followed it carefully other than through newspaper reports. If something comes up I will certainly let you know.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Ms. Michaud.

[Tausha Michaud]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

For me I guess there are the comments that Mr. Rosenberg had consulted the parties. As one of the two designates on the task force, I can confirm I have not corresponded with Mr. Rosenberg.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Soliman, had you been in contact with Mr. Rosenberg?

[Walied Soliman]

As I answered in the previous question, not that I recall.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You had used some very strong language, probably justifiable language, but nonetheless strong language. You told the task force in the final call that the security establishment had clearly failed our democracy, and yet at page 39 of Rosenberg's report he says that the parties gave the task force effectively a clean bill of health. How is one to reconcile the two?

[Walied Soliman]

I don't know. I think you'd have to ask him.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

He never talked to you, and he never talked to Ms. Michaud. Do you know who he talked to from the Conservative Party?

[Walied Soliman]

First of all, I'll say that I don't recall. I have no record of that. It certainly would not have been the conclusion after the engagement that we had with them, but I don't know what else to add to you on that.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Mrs. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and through you I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today. I especially appreciate the fact that you both have provided us with very non-partisan testimony. As you know, we're all in the same kind of business and sometimes partisanship can cloud a lot of the work we do. I really appreciate your honesty and your feedback.

I want to start with Madame Michaud.

In your capacity of chief of staff to the Hon. Erin O'Toole—whom I've had the great pleasure of working with as well in my time here on the Hill, and who will be missed—can you give us some recommendations on how we can improve the communication? You understand that with Mr. Chong, when the Prime Minister found out about what happened to him, he arranged for a briefing with the national security and intelligence adviser and Mr. Vigneault. Could you give us any recommendations that you would suggest we include in this report not only on what could be done in government to help improve and make sure that MPs are feeling safe and that our democracy is protected, but also in how SITE can improve? They did testify that they're new to the political world as well. They don't know how we work. If you can give us any feedback that would be most appreciated.

[Tausha Michaud]

To your last line there, I think that's the exact problem. Mr. Soliman has outlined it repeatedly. The security establishment simply does not understand how the political process works leading up to and during an election.

I think it is incumbent upon legislators and parliamentarians and even, frankly, campaign experts to be brought into that process and help the security establishment understand the political realities that would take place, not just in a campaign period but also in routine business between election cycles.