Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 18th, 2023

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Through you, I'd like to welcome the witnesses and thank them for coming today.

My first question is for the Chief Electoral Officer.

Two days ago the Government of Canada announced additional measures to protect against foreign interference in the upcoming by-elections.

Can you elaborate a little bit here? With those four by-elections that are going to be scheduled for June 19, what are some of the initiatives you're taking to ensure the integrity of those four elections?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Of course, within my mandate, which covers a limited aspect, we do need to make sure that we understand the threat environment at all times, whether it's for a by-election or an upcoming general election. We do, for example, monitor on an ongoing basis now; it used to be only during the election period. We do monitor the social media environment to understand the narratives out there to see if there's disinformation on the voting process specifically. We also work with our government security partners, so we are engaged with the SITE task force, for example. There's an ADM steering committee, a coordinating committee, that looks at the security environment, and we're having meetings this week.

So there's ongoing work with our security partners.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

You touched on something that I think we've also been very concerned about with respect to disinformation campaigns, whether these are misleading voters on where they have to vote, or how they can vote, and so on and so forth. I remember we talked about this the last time you were here.

Can you elaborate a little bit also on your outreach to make sure that accurate information is being shared with voters?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Sure.

We have, of course, voter information campaigns during electoral events to make sure that voters have the information about the voting process. Throughout the campaign, this evolves and we provide timely information as we get closer, for example, to the advance voting and the regular voting. Beyond that, we continue with our Inspire Democracy program, to work with a broad network of civil society actors to provide a lot more information about the voting process and to help remove barriers to voting.

It is really important—increasingly so in the environment we're in—that we push out as much as possible accurate information about the voting process, and that we be seen as the authority on that information.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

You alluded a little bit that you would be coming back to us on this, but, if you recall, we did a study on indigenous languages on the ballot, and you mentioned Nunavut, where you will be rolling that out. Can you give us a little bit of an update on that? We were really hoping that we could get indigenous languages when needed on the ballot across Canada.

[Stéphane Perrault]

The committee's report recommended starting with Nunavut, and that will be our focus and has been our focus. We have been in regular contact with Elections Nunavut to share their expertise and with other organizations.

We are meeting with the advisory committee of political parties in the fall. It was planned for the spring, but with the by-elections and everything going on, we moved that. They will have a role to play in validating how they want to be represented.

We need to do more work on the special ballot process, which is a bit more complicated, and come back to the committee for proper approvals and then go to the Senate after that, because it will deviate from the legal requirements. There is authority in the act for a pilot project to deviate from the rules, so I will be coming back for authorizations once we've finalized our approach.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I would like to now move to Mr. Cormier.

Thank you again for being here. As an MP from Quebec, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the unfortunate situation with the English debate during the last election.

I would like to hear a little more from you on what processes you have started to put into place in terms of naming a new commissioner and making sure that we don't have a repeat in the next federal election.

[Michel Cormier]

After the 2021 election, we did a thorough post-mortem of the debates, and we also consulted widely with stakeholders here and people in other countries who produce debates to try to come up with recommendations for the best format and the best moderation formula, if you like.

The consensus that emerges from all these consultations with people who produce and moderate debates and people who participated is that it's best to have one moderator—probably an experienced journalist who doesn't pose loaded questions, who is knowledgeable about the issues and who doesn't try to participate in the debate but is there to help leaders exchange ideas and express their positions.

In our recommendations, we put the prototype of the moderator profile that we're expecting for the next election, and it coincides with what I've just said in terms of criteria.

Our intention is to work collaboratively in the next election with the producer to make sure that these criteria are respected for a more fluid and less constrained debate, where the timing is less done by the clock and where the moderator—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

[Michel Cormier]

—has time to let people finish their answers and make sure there's engagement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Madame Gaudreau, you have the floor.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to take a moment to tell Mr. Cormier that I'm reassured to know that the review conducted after the last election and the recommendations that came out of it will be used to prevent unfortunate events in the next election.

In the next few minutes, my questions will be directed more to Mr. Perrault.

We have a lot of steps to take in the coming months, I agree. I also understand your concern about the uncertainty of an election call. Normally, elections should be held on a fixed date. Otherwise, it can be quite a challenge.

I'd like you to give us a little more detail on the actual preparations and how you're going to deal with the situation, should an election be called.

[Stéphane Perrault]

Currently, returning officers are reviewing their polling divisions to make sure they are adequate on the current map. They're trying to see which locations could be used for polling, as a specific location can't be reserved right away, since we don't know the date. They're going to engage with indigenous communities, where there are any.

Also, as I mentioned, we're working with post-secondary institutions to ensure that, regardless of when the election is called, there will be an offer of services on campuses. This was not possible during the last election.

We were working from a model of 338 electoral districts. Some returning officers will be assigned a new riding, and they can start to see, based on the proposed changes, how they should adjust. A lot of information sharing needs to take place between regional teams to coordinate this transition.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I'd like a clarification. In the planning summary, what exactly does the budget item for regulatory oversight correspond to?

[Stéphane Perrault]

It's a set of activities. For us, it particularly focuses on making sure that the rules of political financing are known and understood, that candidate reports from political parties and constituency associations are produced, initially, and then audited.

This also includes the work of the Commissioner of Canada Elections, which is carried out independently, but is included in the main estimates under this budget item. It's not the largest item financially, but it's an extremely important role regarding election integrity.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

The purpose of my question is to see what actions are being taken in budgetary matters to safeguard the integrity of our elections. I'd like to have more details on the action plan underway. It has to be said that people are watching us and need reassurance.

[Stéphane Perrault]

I've heard the term “integrity” here, and I think it's important to take the time to look at that.

We have to recognize that we live in an open society. We will continue to be the target of influence on our information from all over the world, through the media and social media. Some countries have airtight systems, and that's not desirable. What we want to have is a resilient society, and that starts with a good knowledge of electoral rules and processes.

You'll have noticed that at Elections Canada, we're putting out more and more information on measures to control election security, that is, elections which fall within our mandate. Obviously, the whole issue of foreign influence, which we're hearing a lot about, goes far beyond the holding of elections. We therefore need to work with partners. Political parties and candidates also have a very important role to play. We really need to make a collective effort, but we have an important role to play.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's a good challenge for you to meet.

In fact, we know that you have met with the Communications Security Establishment to establish every possible rule to secure the ballot. However, I'd like to have more information.

From what we've heard, things are moving fast and, we often don't see cyber-attacks coming. Can you reassure people by giving specific examples of measures that are being taken, whether in the budget, in the process or in meetings, to prevent our country from falling victim to cyber-attacks?

[Stéphane Perrault]

First of all, it's important to know that everything we do in IT is based on an approach that puts security at the heart of our systems design.

In addition, staff periodically receive cybersecurity and phishing awareness training. People know about these issues, but it's important to have reminders. So we have a staff training program.

Outside the Elections Canada shell, we have monitoring that's done in collaboration with the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, which is part of the Communications Security Establishment and monitors the security of our systems and infrastructure 24/7.

We also have partners in the private sector.

So there are several layers of surveillance.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have one more question.

In the confidence and supply agreement between the Liberal Party and the NDP, there is a stated desire for the official voting day to extend over a three-day period. Is this realistic in terms of human, material and financial resources?

I'd like to know what you think about this. Unfortunately, you only have a few seconds to respond.

[Stéphane Perrault]

That's a very important question. I've met with representatives from the different parties, with the minister, too, but with regard to the others—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today and for their important testimony.

I'm going to come to Mr. Perrault first. I'm really interested in what is happening around the work to open up the opportunity for people who face barriers in voting.

I'm really interested in some of the following groups. One is indigenous voters living on reserve. We've heard from different indigenous communities that they sometimes have struggles getting polling stations on their reserves and they know that there would be a far better turnout if those were there. There are also the residents and administrators of long-term care facilities, and students who live on their college and university campuses. I think you've spoken a bit about that and it's really important to get that vote out.

There are also persons with disabilities and voters living in poverty. I think I've talked in this place before about, in my first election, seeing a place in our riding that was very low income. They literally had a polling station down the hill, but they had to travel quite a great distance without any vehicles or bus system to a location where they couldn't get access to voting.

Making sure that people have access to voting is really important.

I'll tie into that, just because it resonates with me, the idea of the confidence and supply agreement that we have. Of course, one thing we've really been fighting for is that wherever you are in the riding, we want you to be able to access the poll. I have a large rural riding, so people travel. They're often still in the same riding, but because they're not in their polling station, they can't vote.

I'm just wondering if you could talk about those two things. I think there's some interconnection in that as well.

[Stéphane Perrault]

There certainly is.

Madam Chair, I'll try to answer as best I can in the limited amount of time.

Proximity is a critical aspect of accessibility and so is the flexibility of being able to vote anywhere.

When I talked about electronic lists, this is the foundation for it. It has merit on its own because of the efficiencies and the better services to voters, but it is also the foundation for voting anywhere. You need electronic lists if you are going to allow electors to vote at any polling location. We are working on that very actively. Hopefully, we will at some point see changes in the legislation to allow more flexibility.

Proximity is important. That's where I'll come back to the previous question. When you look at the number of days of voting and you're talking about over 15,000 or close to 16,000 locations that need to be leased for their regular polling day, if you need to have those locations for three days, we expect that we would lose 25% to 40%. That would have a perverse effect—an unintended consequence—on the accessibility. When you talk about voting days, you need to look at it very carefully to see what the impact is on those communities that may lose a polling station.

The ability to vote anywhere is part of an answer to that problem, but it does not remove the hurdles for those who do not have the mobility to vote anywhere. These are complex and difficult issues. They need to be examined very carefully as we move forward on these aspects.

In terms of indigenous electors on reserve, as I said, our priority—my priority—for the next election is to leverage some of the provisions in Bill C-76 that allow for advance voting for less than four days where there are small, remote communities that cannot support and do not need four consecutive days of voting. That is a firm commitment that I've made to make sure that wherever we are desired—and I understand that in some communities there is not a wish to see Elections Canada in the community—we will be present at least for one day for advance polls. That would be a significant improvement.

As I indicated in my remarks, we are looking at a much broader review of our services to indigenous electors in Canada. That's a long-term review. We've started to meet and we've met with over 230 communities across the country in 60 sessions. We will do a second round of meetings next year. I will come back to this committee with a report on the recommendations to improve services to indigenous electors—not just on reserve, but more broadly.

In terms of voters with disabilities, you may have seen in my departmental plan that we are looking at procuring software to enable electors who are visually impaired to validate independently that they have marked their ballot in the way they intended to. Right now, we have a template that they use, but they can never be absolutely sure that they marked it properly without the assistance of someone else. In terms of independent voting—which is really important for the dignity of people with disabilities—we hope to be able to provide a solution this year and roll it out in a by-election.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'll ask this very quickly, because I only have a few seconds left. I know a lot of the folks who are working to run these elections are elderly.

What's the strategy around addressing that issue as we see people age out of the program? How are you attracting new people?