Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 18th, 2023

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

When Fred DeLorey appeared before the committee, I asked him whether he would agree with the analogy that the information that was being relayed to the SITE task force.... I recognize, of course, that he was not one of the two members; you and Ms. Michaud were. Based on what he understood and based upon conversations he had, he concurred that it was essentially a one-way street and it was effectively like sending information into a black hole. Nothing was followed up on.

Would you agree with that characterization?

[Walied Soliman]

Unfortunately, I do.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I take it, based upon your testimony, that at no time did the SITE task force alert you to any interference activities.

As I understood, what you said was that they told you that there were foreign actors who had an interest in the election, but that there was nothing actionable and nothing that should be of particular concern. Is that correct?

[Walied Soliman]

I'd say there were two concerns. The most alarming to me—and I think why I started really taking interest in this again—was that we were never told the extent of the issues in 2019. In fact, I left meetings feeling that nothing happened in 2019. To the extent it did, it was inconsequential. We've obviously now learned that was not true.

Secondly, the threats in connection with 2021 were very generic. There were multiple global players and things to watch out for. In fact, Mr. Cooper, I could tell you that I recall in one of the meetings, I sort of raised my hand and said that I work for a leader who wants to do the right thing; he absolutely wants to do the right thing. I asked them to help us help them.

I remember saying that we were in the fundraising and vote-getting business. If people put up their hands and say they want to hold a fundraiser for us, we gladly do the best searches we can and get them to do a fundraiser for us. That's in all political parties. We're in the vote-getting business. I don't think we thought we were getting adequate responses to that.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you to the witnesses for being here. It's great to have you. I agree with some of the sentiments you've shared in your opening remarks.

Mr. Soliman, I want to start with you.

I want to start with a very basic question. We invited you to this committee twice. Why did we have to summon you to come before the PROC committee?

[Walied Soliman]

You know, I've always been a volunteer in the political process. I have client commitments and firm commitments. The previous times did not work for me—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Was it just a scheduling matter?

[Walied Soliman]

This time did not work for me, to be quite frank, but we've made it happen.

I have been eager to actually provide this testimony. I'm very glad to have this opportunity.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Okay, great. Well, we're glad to have you now. It's a shame we had to summon you, but we're glad to have you.

When you brought forward allegations of foreign interference to the SITE task force, you said—I think, publicly—that you felt that they weren't taken seriously.

What's interesting is that Jody Thomas, the national security and intelligence adviser to the Prime Minister, came before this committee. When she was asked about that, she said that she had clear documentation of your asking questions and stating your concerns, along with a very detailed response back to you on or about October 22, 2021.

Can you confirm that you received that response?

[Walied Soliman]

First off, Mr. Turnbull, I thought it was quite gratuitous to just talk about the summons, given what I started off with.

Private citizens who serve in the political process as volunteers and who return to the private world are not available just at the beck and call of a committee. We make ourselves available; we try our best. I certainly [Inaudible—Editor]—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Soliman, but you as a lawyer know the power that Parliament has to summon individuals. The Conservative party has done that over and over again. We're just asking for the same due respect and concern for the very important work that's being undertaken at this committee.

I'm just remarking that it's a shame that we had to summon you. We're glad to have you now and we appreciate you being here.

Could you answer the question of whether you received a detailed response from Jody Thomas on or about October 22, 2021, please?

[Walied Soliman]

Those comments by Ms. Thomas were sent to me. I reviewed them. I was a little bit surprised by them, as I had no record of any written response. I, in fact, had it checked five days before or five days after October 22, so I did—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Sir, I don't mean to cut you off. I apologize.

[Walied Soliman]

Let me just finish, please.

I actually reached out to Ms. Thomas, which is the responsible thing to do, for clarification. I learned that her comments were in reference to a video conference with her staff, and they were not in connection with any written comments.

However, I was not satisfied with the conclusions of the security establishment at that time, which is what I've just basically said here.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Okay. Thanks.

[Walied Soliman]

I think it's important to just say, though, that I accept that Ms. Thomas made those comments in good faith. She and I have actually agreed to have a more fulsome conversation privately on some of our observations that, hopefully, could be helpful to her and her office going forward. But there was no written response—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Okay. I got your response. Thank you.

You have made critical remarks about the SITE task force. Can you admit that at least the SITE task force—and the set-up of the critical election incident public protocol—was a mechanism that was an improvement from the past? That didn't exist before 2019. Can you admit that the mechanism itself is a good thing to have in place, which our government put in place?

[Walied Soliman]

I don't have any reference point, Mr. Turnbull, for what was in the past and how things were done then, and how things are done now.

I was very excited about this. I think it is an excellent thing to have in place. What I am telling you is that I just don't think it worked.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Okay.

Can you explain why you didn't raise your concerns about the SITE task force until after election day? In fact, I think you raised concerns approximately 18 months later, if I'm not mistaken. Why did you stay silent for about a year and half?

[Walied Soliman]

That's inaccurate.

Even in Ms. Thomas' testimony, almost immediately after the election our team put together as comprehensive a package as we possibly could for the task force and the security establishment. They did receive it. They did review it.

My conclusions, which are constructive—I'm not trying to be partisan here, Mr. Turnbull—were that they did not appreciate the significance of the impact.

Secondly, I don't believe they felt they had the legislative tools to constructively engage with all of our political parties.

I think those are two things your committee should be looking at.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

We are, and I appreciate those comments. I am just trying to get some of the facts here, because there have been lots of allegations, but no real acknowledgement, certainly from the Conservative members on this committee, that there have been significant steps taken to implement a whole-of-government approach to combat foreign election interference.

But I take you at your word.

You have also referred, in a Twitter thread of February 17, to there "clearly" being evidence of "tampering" by China in the 2019 election. Can you just tell the committee what evidence you have, and would you be able to table that evidence for the committee?

[Walied Soliman]

I think you've seen the same reports that I have, which unfortunately have been revealed through information that credible reporters have reported on through The Globe and Mail, and Global and others.

I think the biggest disappointment to me in this affair is the fact that we just didn't know there was anything wrong in 2019, and I hope that's something that's corrected in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

For my part, I'd like to go into a little more detail, just to be sure I understand the chronology of events.

Mr. Soliman, during the election period, how many times were you in contact with the group of senior officials or with the Security and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task Force? Can you give us a figure?