Evidence of meeting #83 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Johnston's report reads as follows at page 27:
The Minister indicated that when CSIS wanted to transmit sensitive information, they would request a briefing, take him to a secure facility and show it to him.
Is that how you proceed? It's not what I understood from your testimony earlier.
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I can clarify my response.
There are generally two ways to brief the minister: either orally via secured videoconference or in the same room, or by transmitting documents to the attention of the minister, which is very often done.
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I generally don't send classified emails. I send classified documents, and we have discussions, but that's generally not a means of transmission that I would use.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
This passage states:
…they would request a briefing, take him to a secure facility and show it to him.
Did that happen?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
As I mentioned, one of the common ways to transmit information to the minister is to have a meeting with him in the same room or via secure videoconference.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
However, you aren't talking about a secure facility.
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I believe the minister meant that he was going to our offices at CSIS or to the secure offices of the Department of Public Safety.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
However, it was at your request that those meetings were held in those places.
Isn't that correct?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
That can be done at the request of CSIS, the minister or the Department of Public Safety, depending on the subject matter that has to be addressed.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Johnston says this in that same report:
[The minister] believes the Ministerial Direction in place at the time means that CSIS should have briefed him about this,...
This refers to that briefing note that we've been discussing since earlier on.
Is that the case?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
If there's any one thing that's very clear, it's that we're all learning about the events that took place. I think there could have been more information or more regularity in discussions between CSIS and the minister.
The pandemic was very hard on many people. CSIS was one of the only federal government organizations that worked almost solely from its offices. That did nothing to facilitate the exchanges.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I have another important question, Mr. Vigneault.
As regards this issues management note, do you send a lot of these types of notes to the minister every year?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
We may send none in any single week, but there are generally two or three a week.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
The previous national security adviser told us that he had received 7,000 notes to read, and he scolded me for not having read them. He told me that sometime I should sit down on his chair and see how hard it was for him to manage all that information.
However, not that many notes are issues management notes like the one you sent the department concerning Michael Chong. There aren't 7,000 of those every year.
Is that correct?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
That's correct.
There aren't as many issues management notes. On the other hand, that's only one of the ways of transmitting information. There are other ways to communicate critical information to the minister. That isn't the only tool that's used.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Do you think that note is particularly important? Is it the kind of note that should usually draw the attention of the person who receives it?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
The service created that type of note only a few years ago precisely to draw people's attention to issues deemed to be of interest.
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you.
That was a very good conversation. I was asked for a little more time, and I allowed it because the requester showed respect for everyone here, including the interpreters. When people respect me, I do the same in return. I believe we are all finding that this information is important. So we will continue along the same lines.
Mr. Turnbull, you have the floor for five minutes.
7:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
This is with respect to you, Madam Chair, and to our witnesses today.
Mr. Vigneault, I would ask you if you have read the Right Honourable David Johnston's first report.
7:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Do you agree with his findings, specifically the eight allegations that he's looked into that supposedly originated from CSIS leaks? Would you agree with those findings?
7:20 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Madam Chair, I know that the member has limited time, but I would rather that we be a bit more specific, as opposed to just speaking in general about the report.
I will make a specific comment. Generally speaking, yes, I agree with those findings.
7:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
The annex to Johnston's report refers to all of the intelligence in context that he gathered and all of the interviews that he's detailed in his report that have informed his interpretation of those facts. Would you say that they are fairly accurate from your perspective?