Evidence of meeting #9 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
I know there have not been many occasions when members have been able to use all the time allocated to them, because you want to have exchanges with as much information as possible. Having said that, yes, we can always have this discussion in camera.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Perrault, I would like to tell you about some situations that happened in my constituency, and certainly elsewhere.
For example, in a long-term care centre in Contrecœur, in my constituency, there was no mobile poll. So people in the centre were not able to vote at all.
I could also talk about advance polling. It occurs before mobile polls come to long-term care centres. So, if the polling station is not very far from a centre or a retirement home, people will all rush to the advance poll, crowd into the location and have to wait for a very long time.
Can you suggest any solutions to solve the two situations I've just described to you? After all, the objective is for everyone to be able to vote.
I know that you won't have a lot of time to answer, but I could finish by telling you about another situation. People had to wait a huge amount of time to vote in Laurier—Sainte‑Marie in the last election. I saw the same thing in my constituency, in Varennes. People chose to go back home after waiting for three hours at the polling station. Some said that it was because only one person was at the table, not two. In some cases, the decision was even made to not follow the instruction to have one person only. In order to clear the backlog in the polling station, they had two people anyway.
Certainly, it's a specific result of having an election during the pandemic. But the fact remains that it is important to make sure that people have the opportunity to vote, and I feel that there were problems with that.
11:50 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Of course, I share those concerns.
With the people in long-term care centres or retirement homes, the act was amended in order to provide greater flexibility. For the first time, various options were allowed. Each long-term care centre and each retirement home could work with the returning officer to decide on the method.
Traditional voting, not mobile polls, was provided in 77% of our long-term care centres and retirement homes. Then, they were assigned a day between the start of advance polling and election day. The vast majority of them voted before election day. Then, 19% voted by special ballot, with assistance, and, unfortunately, 4% of those who voted by special ballot did so without assistance. I know that the last option is much more complex for an elderly person. I wanted to eliminate it completely, but that was not possible because of the circumstances of the pandemic.
I know that does not address the case in the residence in your constituency. But I will point out, however, that, overall, voting by those in retirement homes dropped very little, certainly less than the overall vote. We saw a drop of 2%. In the grand scheme, I feel that we can be very satisfied with the accommodations we made.
The question is whether we will be able to maintain that flexibility. The act does not normally permit it, but perhaps this is one area where we should continue to provide greater flexibility.
As for the wait times, I can only indicate that they varied a great deal. The average was 13 minutes. That average in no way reflects the experience of voters who waited several hours in some cases, as I am aware. I am very aware of what happened in the constituency of Laurier—Sainte‑Marie, as it did in Toronto. There were exceptional cases across the country and they varied a lot. In general, things went well, although not every voter may think so.
We used a one-worker model. In itself, the model does not slow the process down. We can even speed it up by having more tables. However, that depends on the set-up of the location. A number of variables have to be considered and, for the future, we have to look at what the best combination may be. When there is plenty of space for voting booths, we could also increase the number of tables, using one worker. Even though it may be a little slower per table, overall, things could balance out. So there are number of variables to consider.
However, I am very aware that not every Canadian had a good experience in the last election.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Madame Chair.
Through you, I would like to ask the witnesses a bit more about indigenous participation. In the write-up we have here, there is mention of the first nations electors in Kenora, Ontario, but I know that many indigenous communities had no way to vote, for example, first nations on reserve. It was not accessible.
I'm wondering if the committee could hear whether this was because of the pandemic, or whether there were other barriers, and what they were. What is the strategy, moving forward, to make sure those barriers are removed?
Another question I have is about the infrastructure limits, going back to both indigenous communities and rural and remote communities. I think of looking for spaces to set up. A place to hold elections can sometimes be challenging. Bella Coola was mentioned in the report. I know there were particular challenges there, but I imagine those are also experienced in smaller communities.
Further to that question, with the idea of having advance polls a bit more flexible, I want to make sure that process is happening. Is there anything this committee needs to recommend that would help that process be cleaner and smoother for rural and remote communities, and also for indigenous communities across the country?
11:55 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Certainly, we have the tools to make advance polls more available. That is something that is happening right now, so we are working on this.
Stepping back and talking about first nations communities across Canada, this is an area where we need to improve, as I said in my report and in my remarks. The service offering to first nations communities did not, generally speaking, go down in this election. The problem is the growing delta between the service offering to those communities and the rest of Canadians. That delta is quite visible to those communities and it is something that needs to be addressed.
Every election, returning officers contact first nations communities in their electoral district. They contact 100% of them. They reach out to them prior to the election. In this case, they did that in June and July, and they reached out to all the communities once the writ was issued.
In a significant number of cases—57% this time around—first nations communities said they wanted to have polling services in their community. In roughly 40% of the cases, election after election, leaders in the communities have a decision to make and they decided that they do not wish to have voting services in the community. That's something we have always respected and will always respect. Of course, there's a long history behind that choice.
In many cases, the service offering is right outside of the community, just outside of the reserve. Some of these reserves are close to urban areas, and that works well. In other cases, it works not so well if there's a greater distance.
Each case is unique. In that regard, this election was not very different than other elections.
As I said, how we need to improve first is to increase the number of advance polling opportunities, so that first nations have the same or similar flexibility that most Canadians have. Currently, that is not the case. This is something we can do fairly quickly.
Longer term, we need to look back. We're in the process right now of building a team, which will include persons from first nations communities, to look at the way we engage with and communicate with first nations communities. How do we understand their realities and their needs? How do we better build bridges between those communities and Elections Canada to ensure that the service offering is adequate and that it's well communicated?
When we look back at Kenora, there were communications problems, there were problems with understanding the needs of the community and there were problems in terms of the service offering at advance polls. These are problems that are widespread. It will take more time. We are building a team to examine in depth how we engage with and communicate with first nations, but we don't need to wait years to start taking action. There are things we are putting in place right now to improve services.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you, Mr. Perrault.
Now I'll give the floor to Mr. Vis for five minutes.
Noon
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Through you, Madam Chair, I'd like to pose two questions during my time today.
On page 34 of the report, it specifically references my riding. It states that:
Electors who were evacuated from Lytton, British Columbia, could vote in person at polls in Spence’s Ridge (the closest community) or by mail or at a local Elections Canada office if they had self-evacuated farther away.
This was very problematic in my riding. Elections Canada was asking voters to go into an area that was under the imminent threat of a forest fire. It was not safe for people to be travelling to Spences Bridge.
Madam Chair, I am very concerned that Elections Canada didn't treat this issue with more seriousness and offer an option to voters to have the type of service commonly given to seniors in assisted living facilities, such as a mobile poll. This was also problematic, because many of my constituents and the voters had lost their identification. They had fled town with 15 minutes' notice and did not have either their vehicles or sufficient identification to vote by mail or to even go back into an area under an evacuation alert, as I recall.
Madam Chair, my second question relates to the issuing of leases. Throughout the report presented to us, it states clearly that with the snap election, it was difficult for Elections Canada officials to find adequate places to hold the election in conjunction with the pandemic and the snap election. It says that issuing leases, as well, can only be issued after the writ has dropped.
Madam Chair, would it be easier for Elections Canada to find suitable places for polling locations if they were able to issue leases before the writ drops?
Noon
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Madam Chair, I'll start with the last question.
The problem is not the lack of ability to sign a lease before writ drops. It's because without knowing the date of the election, it is not possible to secure premises for any date. In a fixed-date election context, we have the ability to enter into formal agreements much earlier than when the writs are dropped. It's not the case, of course, in a snap election, so there's unfortunately not much that can be done legally to assist us in that regard.
In the case of Lytton, I understand that it was an extremely difficult situation. I think it was difficult in many places in your district, both during and after the election with the floods.
One of the challenges there, if I understand correctly—and I'll ask my colleague Mr. Roussel to add to my comments—was that this was a place where people were not evacuated to a particular location, as is sometimes the case.
We've seen that in Winnipeg, for example, where we knew exactly where the evacuees were, and we were able to go there and serve them. It was more challenging in Lytton because—
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
I'll just intervene on that point. The majority of the evacuees were evacuated to Kamloops and Merritt in the adjacent electoral district. That is why, during the election, I specifically requested a mobile polling station. I'm still at a loss as to why Elections Canada couldn't have been flexible to have that option for the voters, many of whom—I might add—were indigenous from Lytton First Nation.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you for putting that on the record, Mr. Vis. There are about 50 seconds remaining.
We go to Mr. Perrault and then to Mr. Roussel.
12:05 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Perhaps, Monsieur Roussel, you could add some elements of information here about the situation in Lytton.
Normally we do try to make use of the flexibility we have.
12:05 p.m.
Michel Roussel Deputy Chief Electoral Officer, Electoral Events and Innovation, Elections Canada
Unfortunately, Madam Chair, I will have to study that case and get more information on what the member has been recounting. We want to get the facts straight.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
That would be great.
Mr. Vis has put some comments on the record. He is available.
We would welcome that information to the committee members.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Through you, Madam Chair, I'd like to request a written response regarding my line of questioning today on the situation—
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Perfect.
Thank you all very much.
Now, Ms. Romanado, you have five minutes.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Through you, I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today.
I have a question with respect to voter information cards. In the report provided to the committee, the issue of voter information cards, VICs, was highlighted on the bottom of page 16 and on the top of page 17, where there was a delay in mailing them out because of the fact that Elections Canada did have difficulty securing polling places.
I know for a fact that many constituents in my riding were not aware of the fact that they could still vote even though they hadn't received the voter information card, despite our efforts to educate them that they didn't need it to vote. That was an issue we heard a lot about.
Also, with respect to advance polling and special ballots, people are still assuming that they have to have a rationale or a reason to use those other options, whether they be the special ballot or advance polls. They're under the impression that they have to a valid excuse not to vote on election day.
Through you, Madam Chair, could the Chief Electoral Officer explain some of the education efforts to ensure that voters, especially new citizens to Canada, know what they can and cannot do?
12:05 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
It is quite correct that of course the voter information is not required. We encourage electors to bring it because it does facilitate the process.
We have an information campaign that informs electors of all the various options for voting. We have material in 49 languages, and I can certainly follow up with the committee on the measures we take to inform new Canadians, because we do have measures in place. It is unfortunate that some are still under the impression that they cannot vote without a voter information card. Clearly that is not the case.
Similarly, I have to say that I am somewhat surprised that electors still believe you need an excuse or reason to vote at advance polls. It's been many years, and as I said earlier, we've gone from 3.5% to 35%. Quite frankly, if we continue in that direction—and there's no sense of it stopping—we will need longer election periods because recruitment is becoming extremely difficult in the days leading up to the advance polls. We can't have half of the population voting at advance polls and train half of the poll workers in the amount of time we have now.
I'm not sure how to respond to that. I can certainly share with the committee the products we use and the approach we take to explain to voters how they need to prepare to vote at the election.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
I also wanted to touch briefly on recruiting people to work at the polls. I know that in my riding it was an issue. We had a lot of difficulty recruiting people to work at the polls. We had situations—and I know you referred to this in the report—where some employees would not show up or would quit on the day of the advance poll and it caused a bit of havoc.
What efforts are there to try to recruit and train people to work during the elections? Is some online training available in between elections? If you could, please elaborate a bit on that, because we saw a lot of people who had never worked at elections before working this time, and it slowed down the process and there were a lot of errors. I know that in terms of closing polls, people had difficulty counting ballots. If you could elaborate, that would be great.
12:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
In the context of the pandemic, the challenge is not just recruiting but also training, because when we train in person in closed classrooms, with the distancing that's required, you need more space, more classrooms. One of the things we did in this election was augment the tools for training using new online material and online training sessions. I don't believe they're available as we speak, but we could make them available all the time. We also had “train on your own” guides to support poll workers. However, clearly there were new poll workers in this election, and perhaps more than other elections because of the unique circumstances.
I'll add that in this election, 14,000 poll workers who had been recruited and trained did not show up on polling day. In the last election, it was 10,000. I'm happy to say that we managed this much better than 10,000. Because it did cause a disruption in the last election, we were prepared for it. We expected that people would, at the last minute, be sick—and we asked people who were sick not to show up—or be concerned about COVID, or for other reasons decide not to show up. There were 14,000 who did not show up.
Returning officers made calls in the days leading up to the election to firm up the commitments, and when people said they were no longer willing to work, they had to merge polls. Basically, it causes a lot of lineups—around Toronto in particular, for example—when you need to combine polls. There's a limit, of course, to how much combining one can do without creating significant lineups. That was a big challenge for us in this election.
We'll need to revisit that. I'm not sure there's any magic wand we can wave. I don't know anybody who can recruit more than 195,000 people in 30 days and train them for a single day of work. It's quite a challenge.
