Evidence of meeting #19 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was panel.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Drouin  Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office
Morrison  Deputy Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Geddes  Deputy Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Babou  Executive Director, Rapid Response Mechanism, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Aubertin-Giguère  Assistant Deputy Minister and National Counter Foreign Interference Coordinator, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

I call this meeting to order. Welcome back.

Welcome to meeting number 19 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), the committee is meeting on its study of foreign election interference. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we continue, I ask that all in-person participants consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents in order to protect the health and safety of all participants, especially our interpreters. There's a QR code for a short video; please take a look.

I will make a few comments for the benefit of the members. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Members in the room, if you wish to speak, raise your hand. I don't think there is anyone on Zoom today, but if you do find yourself there, use the “raise hand” function.

Before I welcome today's witnesses, I'd just like to quickly adopt three budgets that have been circulated to the members.

Is there a motion to adopt those budgets?

Some hon. members

Agreed.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

Is there any opposition to adopt those budgets?

Some hon. members

No.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

They are approved.

I would now like to welcome today's witnesses.

From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have David Morrison, deputy minister and member of the critical election incident public protocol panel; and Saliou Babou, executive director of the rapid response mechanism.

From the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, we have Tricia Geddes, deputy minister and member of the critical election incident public protocol panel; and Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère, assistant deputy minister and national counter foreign interference coordinator.

From the Privy Council Office, we have Nathalie Drouin, deputy clerk of the Privy Council, national security and intelligence adviser to the Prime Minister and member of the critical election incident public protocol panel.

I understand that Madam Drouin will be making a statement.

Please proceed.

Nathalie Drouin Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting me to discuss the work of the panel that administered the critical election incident public protocol during the 45th general election.

As you mentioned, Mr. Chair, I, along with my colleagues David Morrison and Tricia Geddes, had the privilege of being panel members during the 45th general election.

I would like to begin with a core message, one that multiple independent reviews of multiple elections have shown to be true: Canada's elections were sound. Canadians can and should have full confidence that their elections were secure and that their voices were heard.

All democracies are targets of foreign interference, and in that regard, Canada is no different. As we heard during the public inquiry into foreign interference, there is always a baseline of foreign interference observed by our intelligence agencies, which work very hard to mitigate it. It is important to note, however, that we did not see a spike in foreign interference activities during the elections. While we must remain vigilant against continued foreign attempts to undermine our democracy, Canada has implemented robust measures that have protected and will continue to protect the integrity of our elections.

In the most recent election, we implemented an enhanced protocol. Our efforts produced a greater level of preparation and transparency than for any election before. To support the evolving works of the panel, the Clerk of the Privy Council issued a guidance outlining that the panel should consider the full range of actions available to the government, including communicating with Canadians. These efforts to mitigate or defuse attempts at interference before they met the threshold of a critical incident were an important change in focus.

We worked to mitigate problems as they arose and moved quickly to inform Canadians when necessary. We were not starting from scratch. We drew on the lessons learned from previous elections, the recommendations resulting from independent reviews, and the findings of the commission responsible for the public inquiry into foreign interference. We therefore knew that rigorous monitoring and response efforts were crucial. The government put new safeguards in place. Between January 2024 and March 2025, leading up to the general election, the panel held 17 meetings and individual briefings. We also strengthened interdepartmental coordination. We worked more closely with the security and intelligence threats to elections, or SITE, task force, for ongoing intelligence analysis and better risk mitigation.

Importantly, we aimed to foster trust and resilience in the Canadian public. During this past election, we instructed SITE to hold weekly public briefings to inform Canadians on the threat environment. This was a first-of-its-kind initiative for Canadian elections. We were and remain committed to transparency and vigilance.

During these briefings, our experts provided accurate and timely information about such matters as transnational repression, particularly by the PRC against a Conservative candidate in the election; efforts to amplify contrasting narratives about political candidates across a variety of social media platforms; efforts by Russia to undertake foreign information manipulation and interference activities online; and incidents where politicians' names were used to promote cryptocurrency and financial activities. Government officials also provided regular briefings to cleared political party representatives on the threat landscape before and during the election.

We expected that foreign interference activities would happen, and we were prepared for them. Despite their existence during the election, the panel, informed by the task force activities, was able to determine that none reached the threshold of threatening the election's integrity and its outcome.

Let me be clear: The integrity of the 45th general election was not compromised. The election was carried out securely and with confidence. Thanks to layered defence mechanisms across a number of areas, we were able to mitigate malign activity. We ensured continuous monitoring of the online environment, we assessed emerging threats rapidly and we took countermeasures, disrupting or even neutralizing the attempted activity.

On the diplomatic front, we were in contact with other governments, advising foreign missions what the rules were and what constituted acceptable conduct. Since the last election, we have continued our efforts to bolster Canada against foreign interference. Nearly 70% of the recommendations arising from the public inquiry into foreign interference have been, or are being, implemented. We have released the proposed foreign influence transparency and accountability regulations, and the process to appoint the first commissioner is under way.

Just as we learned from past lessons, the experience gained, particularly during the 45th election, will inform our work going forward. For the first time, we released a retrospective report summarizing the panel's deliberations and decisions during the caretaker period. I hope it was useful to you.

In closing, I want to reiterate the importance of continuing to ensure that Canadians can freely and fairly exercise their right to choose their democratic representatives; Canada's security and sovereignty depend on it.

Thank you. We are available to answer members' questions.

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

Thank you so much.

We'll turn to Mr. Cooper for six minutes, please.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

During the last federal election campaign, the SITE task force, at the direction of the critical election incident public protocol panel, made a public announcement that there was a foreign information operation targeting Mr. Carney, deliberately amplifying narratives in a coordinated way to Chinese audiences. That operation involved WeChat articles from the Youli-Youmian account that were then amplified on other WeChat news accounts.

Do I have that right?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

Okay. Now the Youli-Youmian account is WeChat's most popular news account with links to the Chinese Communist Party's central political and legal affairs commission. Is that right as well?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

Now the social media engagement from these articles was high, even exceeding the engagement level on Chinese state-controlled media outlets such as the People's Daily. Is that correct?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

Through a high social media engagement and views, the articles about Mr. Carney received between 85,000 and 130,000 interactions at an estimated one to three million views. Is that correct?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

Nathalie Drouin

I don't recall those specific numbers. I don't know if my colleagues... Yes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

That's correct, okay.

WeChat has a large footprint amongst Chinese diaspora communities in Canada, with the number of Canadian users estimated to be over a million. Is that right?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

So it's fair to say that a fair number of people, Canadians within the Chinese diaspora community, would have likely come across these posts. Is that fair?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

Nathalie Drouin

That's likely, yes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

The articles portrayed Mr. Carney in a largely positive light. Is that a fair characterization?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

Nathalie Drouin

I think we'll say that it was a mixed bag of positive and negative comments on Mr. Carney.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

I've reviewed a translation of one of the main articles in question, and I've reviewed media reports from the time highlighting contents of the articles in question. The articles refer to Mr. Carney as a tough guy, a saviour, an old hand well-versed on finance matters. One of the Chinese communist propaganda pieces was a 2,000-word WeChat post saying that the United States was facing a tough prime minister from Canada. I'd say that, by any objective standard, Mr. Carney was being cast in a pretty positive light.

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

Nathalie Drouin

Again, as I said, we saw both. We saw different posts. Some were positive; others were negative. We also saw using Prime Minister Carney as a figure in order to sell, as I said in my opening remarks, some cryptocurrency. We saw different patterns and, as I said before, there was a mixed bag.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB

There were some contrasting narratives, but on the whole, the messaging was positive. I guess this is where I would offer, perhaps, some level of criticism over the backgrounder and media release that was issued by the SITE task force at the direction of the panel inasmuch as nowhere did it indicate that there were any of these positive messages. In fact, there was wording to describe the messaging as if Mr. Carney was being targeted or a target. In that sense, I think it's arguable to say that a full and accurate picture of exactly what was going on wasn't provided with respect to the scope, extent and substance of the Beijing-directed influence campaign and how it portrayed Mr. Carney.

11:15 a.m.

Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council Office, National Security and Intelligence Advisor to the Prime Minister and Member of the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol Panel, Privy Council Office

Nathalie Drouin

I would like to say that, first of all, as I said, we tried to offer information to Canadians for them to be informed of what was happening. We took also a balanced approach. The role of the SITE task force and the role of the panel is not to amplify what we are seeing in the social media, but, when we report to Canadians, we report in a factual way. We are not making judgment on whether or not it's positive or negative.