Evidence of meeting #24 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was democracy.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Principal, MASS LBP
I would simply observe that I think we teach many of the wrong lessons about democracy in our high schools. Even the structure of student government teaches people, from a very young age, that they can opt out and leave it to other kids, who often have various sorts of privileges and advantages and are recognized as young leaders, to gallop ahead. It establishes a norm in which most people are relatively passive spectators of this thing called politics.
We have better models. Recently, the Senate convened Canada's first climate youth citizens' assembly, building off the B.C. model Mr. Wilkinson mentioned.
Let's recall that 58% of Canadians voted for electoral reform in B.C. I can't recall a government that's ever been elected with 58%.
When we invite people to do real work and serve in a capacity that lets them grapple with real problems, Canadians, time and again, spring into action, young and old. There have been 1,500 assemblies globally. It's one of Canada's proudest democratic exports.
Liberal
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Beebe, I would like to congratulate you on becoming a Canadian citizen.
Maybe I'll start with you, Mr. Beebe. I was wondering if you could comment on the importance of quality local journalism when it comes to civic resilience versus websites that peddle conspiracy theories and disinformation.
Director, Democratic Engagement Exchange
We would all agree that it's critical. This has been one of the core pieces eroding the health of our democracies.
We see this particularly during municipal elections. In municipal elections, especially if you don't happen to be in one of the major cities with a major paper covering it, it can be very challenging to find accurate information about the candidates and issues that are being discovered and discussed in those meetings. We hear that this is the major reason people don't participate. They don't feel as though they can make a well-informed choice, especially new Canadians and young people who don't already have a clear political ideology that they can line up with and look to.
It's critical to invest in the health of our local democracy, local journalism.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Everybody I know is on Facebook these days. It always struck me as more than a little counterproductive that if you have, say, a municipal election campaign, individuals cannot share links to mainstream media articles on their Facebook pages, but anybody who wants to can spread disinformation and conspiracy theories on Facebook.
Mr. Beebe, I was wondering if you could share your comments on that.
Director, Democratic Engagement Exchange
It's part of the challenge that the platforms are posing for us. I completely agree. We run into this all the time, and we don't have the perfect answer. It's the hardest question we get. People say, “Okay, I get it. I want to vote. I understand. Who should I vote for?” Of course, we do not tell people who to vote for, but we want to direct them to good information. We say, listen to the news, attend town hall meetings, go to debates. Those are high lifts for people who are leading busy lives.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
I'll turn to you, Mr. Rahyab.
Could you share your thoughts on the ease with which individuals can share disinformation on social media when they can't share links to their local news publication on Facebook?
Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Resilient Societies
Unfortunately, this is the challenge we have right now, as it's so easy to share misinformation or disinformation among Canadians. One way we are involved in this is in promoting information integrity through the ecosystem, but empowering communities through media literacy and other available tools to ensure that they have a say and that they have agency in understanding which information to believe and which information not to trust. This is the key thing. Sometimes it's hard, and we need to advocate and see how these platforms can become better. In the meantime, on the other side, we can focus on how our communities can become more resilient so that they are not victims of disinformation. Building capacity within communities so that they can decide for themselves how they're going to consume disinformation is going to play a key role in minimizing its impacts.
Conservative
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Very good.
Mr. MacLeod, it's the same question for you. Could you share your thoughts on the lost opportunity to share links to mainstream media articles on Facebook versus sharing links to conspiracy theories and disinformation on Facebook?
Principal, MASS LBP
It's an absolute scandal. Unfortunately, it shows Canada's vulnerability in the face of big tech. If you were to ask Canadians if they want to share news on Facebook, they'd say yes. However, Facebook—Meta—has decided to deny Canadians this opportunity in retaliation for government policy. It shows the current danger of trying to act and regulate in defence of Canadians in this space.
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Madame Kayabaga, you have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I would like to allow Mr. MacLeod to finish his thoughts on the answer he was giving. I'm interested to hear more about this danger with regulations from the government.
Principal, MASS LBP
I think every parliamentarian is aware that the government has worked to introduce online harms legislation. There is speculation that this will be challenged in the ongoing trade negotiations that are under way as we attempt to renew our free trade relationship with Mexico and the United States. It's why we see the greatest success with larger political entities like the European Union, which has introduced a variety of statutes. The EU is being challenged by big tech, and Canada can expect to be challenged as well. It doesn't mean that we can't do hard things and that we shouldn't try.
In fact, it is much like another era—the 1960s and 1970s, with the great era of cultural nationalism—when we established the CRTC and many other means to ensure that Canadian voices could be heard by each other, unimpeded by American broadcasters. We need to find our resolve on this question so that Canadians can speak to each other unimpeded again.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
I agree with you. I was trying to understand where your train of thought was headed, because this is what Canadians want us to do. They want us to protect Canadians online and to stand up to big tech and allow Canadians to be paid for what they produce. I agree that this plays into the very complicated negotiations.
I'll follow up on a conversation around engaging young people. I had the privilege of being shadowed by three young people from different universities today. I think the engagement is there.
Could you talk about other innovative ways to engage Canadians, beyond a citizens' assembly or policy engagement? Do you have any ideas on other ways we could be innovative in getting younger and other Canadians engaged and give them the power structure you talked about?
Director, Democratic Engagement Exchange
Peter, I'll turn it over to you. You start, and then I have some ideas.
Principal, MASS LBP
Briefly, there's no shortage of experts in this field, and there is no shortage of very innovative programs that exist and deserve to be scaled.
I'm going to point to one that may be sensitive for the committee, and this is the importance of something that, sadly, has become necessary given global affairs: the creation of a civil defence corps for Canada. There are lots of ways for young people to contribute to the defence of the country by learning emergency skills or by having better first aid skills. We're at a point when we need to organize our society, much as the Scandinavians have done, and give Canadians of all ages the opportunity to feel as though they can be part of a response, whether it is a natural disaster or whether it is, unfortunately, some kind of territorial challenge.
Director, Democratic Engagement Exchange
Regarding young folks in university, we know the importance and value of Elections Canada's on-campus voting program, but we haven't seen our post-secondary institutions—the colleges and universities—step up to ensure that young people know about these opportunities and have an opportunity to become well informed. It's not just in your poli-sci class. It's across the university.
How do we engage people in these conversations and demystify the voting process? I blame my country of origin, but a lot of people in Canada think voting is really hard. When they go to vote, they realize it's easy. If you've never voted before, it's natural to think that you have to jump through all these hoops and do all these things. Well, you don't. We're very lucky, and part of engaging people is just demystifying the voting process.
It's also about encouraging them and creating safe spaces for people to have these conversations. This is not easy, and we've all felt the pressure on campuses. I work on campus. How do we make sure that we're creating ways for people to have what can sometimes be difficult conversations? It doesn't mean we can't have them, though.
Then there are simple, practical things we can do on campuses to encourage and raise awareness. We did this at TMU during the 2019 election, and we saw participation in the on-campus voting turnout go up 55%.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle
Thank you.
I'd like to thank our witnesses, especially for waiting with us through the votes.
The study will continue.
This committee will move to an in camera meeting, so for those not authorized to be here.... I'd like to thank and dismiss everyone in the gallery and our witnesses.
We will suspend to go in camera.
[Proceedings continue in camera]