Human Resources Committee on Oct. 25th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'd like to call this meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the Committee on Thursday, May 11, 2006, the Committee resumed its study of Employability in Canada.

This morning, we'll hear from the representatives of the Centrale des syndicats démocratiques, the Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec, the Fondation de la langue française pour l'innovation sociale et scientifique and SPHERE-Québec.

Each group will have seven minutes to make its presentation, then we'll have a period of questions and answers.

Mr. Giroux, I turn the floor over to you. You have seven minutes.

[Philippe-Olivier Giroux, President, Conseil national des cycles supérieurs, Quebec Federation of University Students]

I'm going to make my presentation in French.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen members, we would like to thank you for inviting us to make a presentation today.

First, I would briefly like to explain what our organization is. The Conseil national des cycles supérieurs de la Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec is an organization with a mandate to defend and promote the rights and interests of masters and doctoral students at Quebec university institutions. We represent them to the public and to the principal players in the education and research system. We represent approximately 30,000 members.

We would like to give you our recommendations on employability in Canada. We are going to address this question from the standpoint of highly skilled manpower training and we propose three action approaches. First, we propose that transfer payments for postsecondary education be increased to ensure basic funding for universities, second, that funding for university research be increased in order to train innovative labour force and, third, that university research be fostered by promoting professional employment for masters and doctoral graduates.

The first approach consists in increasing federal transfers for postsecondary education. To place Canada among the top five countries in the area of research and development investment, we think it is essential to invest more in our universities. In the mid-1990s, the government reduced transfer payments for universities, and Canadian universities have since had considerable difficulty bearing the costs of what is called core funding, that is to say for hiring professors, funding libraries — to enable them to buy books — renewing computer hardware and constructing buildings. We propose that transfers for postsecondary education be increased by $4.9 billion, that is to say that they be restored to the levels of the mid-1990s, before the cuts, and that they be indexed to costs and increased university staff. This measure is essential in enabling universities to carry out their mission, which is to train a highly skilled labour force.

The idea is not only to increase transfers, but also to ensure that those transfers are dedicated to postsecondary education. Currently, transfers to the provinces for postsecondary education are included in the Canada Health and Social Transfer. Splitting that transfer and earmarking the portion of the contribution that goes to postsecondary education would make it possible to achieve three extremely positive objectives. The first is to identify the federal government's contribution to postsecondary education and that of the provincial governments. The second is to respect the jurisdictions of the provinces, because education is a provincial jurisdiction, and transferring the money would make that possible. The third is to maintain accountability. At present, since the money is included in a transfer for very general social programs, the provinces can afford to use those amounts for purposes other than postsecondary education. We think these are the main advantages of making a dedicated transfer.

The second approach is to increase funding for university research to ensure the university teaching body is renewed. I'm going to cite an interesting statistic. According to the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada, 34,000 professorial positions will have to be filled by 2010. It is therefore necessary to give our universities the chance to recruit the best researchers to fill those positions. To do that, we think money must be invested in university research. We suggest two ways of achieving that end: increase the budgets of the organizations that subsidize research and cover direct research costs in full. The budgets of the subsidizing organizations that fund researchers could be increased, which would enable researchers to conduct research and train students, and would pay students scholarships enabling them to study at the masters and doctoral levels and to acquire the skills they can use in the job market. We think it is important to meet the demands of these organizations which subsidize research. To that end, we propose that $295 million be invested each year until 2010 to enable those subsidizing organizations to achieve their objectives, which they have set in the context of their strategic plans.

Those subsidizing organizations are the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council and the Canadian Institutes of Health.

We suggest that the research environment of university institutions be reinforced and that indirect research costs be covered. What are those indirect costs? They are the costs arising from the research contracts that the government signs with universities. It signs many such contracts. Currently, the federal government pays the provinces the equivalent of 27% of the cost of such research, whereas, according to a number of estimates, it should be paying 65%. We therefore hope that the government will pay the actual value of indirect research costs, that is to say 65%.

The third approach is to reward university research by promoting professional employment for graduates. In our view, the individuals who have been trained are the main product of university research. It is necessary to help them transfer their knowledge to businesses and the community. To promote and facilitate professional employment for graduates, CNCS proposes that more funding be granted for programs that make it possible to bridge the gap between the universities and the work place, such as the Community-University Research Alliances, or CURA, the Humanities Research Council of Canada and the Industrial Research Assistance Program of the National Research Council of Canada, or NRC-IRAP. Among other things, this will enable small and medium-size businesses that currently conduct very little research and development to hire qualified staff, masters and doctoral graduates who will enable them to develop more innovative, higher value-added products.

That completes our recommendations. I'll briefly sum up our demands: increase transfers for postsecondary education; split off the transfer for postsecondary education to underscore the federal government contribution; reinvest in the three organizations that subsidize research; increase the payment of indirect research costs to cover actual cost; and promote professional employment of masters and doctoral graduates as a way of transferring knowledge from the universities to society and business.

Thank you very much. I'll be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Mr. Beausoleil, I turn the floor over to you. You have seven minutes.

[Jean-Marc Beausoleil, Agent de développement de solutions et de projets, Fondation de la langue française pour l'innovation sociale et scientifique]

Good morning. My name is Jean-Marc Beausoleil, and I work for the Fondation de la langue française pour l'innovation sociale et scientifique.

Before starting my presentation, I'd like to mention two things. First of all, our organization would like to thank Ms. Denise Savoie for inviting us here to present this brief. Second, over the next seven minutes, we're going to tell you who we are, our mandate, the reasons for our appearance here concerning employability and our recommendations, which you will find on page 16 of the document that will be distributed in Ottawa.

The Fondation de la langue française pour l'innovation sociale et scientifique is a national, non-profit, non-governmental agency consisting of professors, academics, professionals and ordinary citizens, which was established in 2000 and is registered with the government.

Our organization is funded by contributions from our members. We work across Canada toward solving the problem of the shortage of French-language books and teaching resources at the postsecondary level, including occupational training. This situation has a direct impact on employability, which is recognized by all in the education community in Canada, as well as in the Canadian work place.

We have a pan-Canadian mandate to solve the problem of the shortage of books and teaching resources in French at the postsecondary level. We are supported by the Canadian education community and working world as a whole, in particular by the school boards of British Columbia, the Montreal School Commission, university associations, unions, associations of Francophones outside Quebec, the Canadian Council on Learning and others.

We are speaking to you this morning on behalf of all French-speaking Canadians. The problem is a problem at the federal government level. It does not concern education as such, but rather the basis of education. It concerns equal opportunity for French-speaking and English-speaking Canadians, the Official Languages Act, training in the Armed Forces — which is the largest pan-Canadian ministry of education — the fiscal imbalance and employability.

This problem is therefore national in scope because it concerns all French-speaking Canadians across Canada and their employability. The shortage of books and teaching resources in French in the postsecondary institutions is a form of institutionalized discrimination across Canada.

The employability situation in Canada is both simple and utterly incoherent. When students attend a French-language postsecondary institution to receive an education in French, as they are entitled to do, 75%, if not 90%, of their books and teaching resources are in English.

This situation causes knowledge transmission problems, increases the number of drop-outs, undermines worker training, contributes to the impoverishment of the French-speaking Canadian population, by promoting ignorance and the brain drain, thus undermining wealth creation. All these factors harm employability.

The shortage of books and teaching resources in French at the postsecondary level handicaps understanding. For some, that handicap is 100%, for others 10%. The average handicap in knowledge transmission is 18%. That's the difference between a very good surgeon and an average surgeon, a very good engineer and an average engineer. And I'm not talking about all those who don't enrol in postsecondary institutions because of the handicap that the shortage of French-language teaching resources represents.

This problem will ultimately affect the English Canadian education system. Allow me to explain. The lack of teaching resources in French at postsecondary institutions will result over the long term in a loss of control over our education system, among both English- and French-speaking Canadians, and of our economy, and thus a loss of control over our employability policies.

This scenario is not unrealistic. Currently, the only thing preventing U.S. postsecondary institutions from establishing themselves here, under article 11 of NAFTA, is the cultural exclusion.

The cultural exclusion, that means the books at the postsecondary institutions of the French Canadian education system. I hope I haven't strayed too far from my point. I'm not used to going so fast.

Ultimately, we wanted to mention two main points to you this morning. There is a form of discrimination across Canada. It's not normal, and it is not worthy of Canada. In some respects, we find ourselves with two levels: English Canadians have access to resources entirely in English, and French Canadians don't have access to resources in French. That automatically creates discrimination and an imbalance. Furthermore, it works against equality of opportunity between the two communities.

If we don't solve this problem, we'll one day be forced to subsidize U.S. postsecondary institutions. They will come and establish themselves here and will demand that we subsidize them because, in any case, everything operates in English here. Forget the cultural exclusion: that doesn't exist.

You'll find our recommendations on page 6 of the brief we'll be submitting to you. Thank you very much. I hope we've been clear on the subject of conditions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Beausoleil.

The briefs will not be distributed until they have been translated.

I'd like to move on to our next speaker, Madame Moreau.

You have seven minutes, madam.

[Nancy Moreau, Director general, SPHERE-Québec (Soutien à la personne handicapée en route vers l'emploi au Québec)]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, members of the committee, thank your for receiving us this morning and allowing us to speak to you.

The corporation SPHERE-Québec (Soutien à la personne handicapée en route vers l'emploi au Québec) is a non-profit organization established by partners interested in job integration and training for persons with disabilities.

SPHERE-Québec's goal is to promote participation in economic and social life by a larger number of persons with disabilities isolated from the labour market. To achieve this objective, in 1997, the Department of Human Resources and Social Development Canada gave SPHERE-Québec's team a mandate to implement the individual measures of the Opportunities Fund for Persons with Disabilities.

SPHERE-Québec offers its services through four offices in the heart of the province's main regions. Its project officers take part at every stage of regional cooperation on employment and work in close cooperation with community partners. This cooperative effort with the partners is moreover apparent from the make-up of SPHERE-Québec's board of directors, which consists of representatives of employers, unions and the main organizations working with persons with disabilities in the province.

Here's a little background.

SPHERE-Québec is filing this brief with the committee to inform it of its experience with the employability of persons with disabilities. One of the first findings that we can make is that a large percentage of persons with disabilities are currently inactive but feel they are able to work. However, these people say they experience problems of all kinds, such as negative perceptions by employers, transportation problems and a lack of training and experience. And yet persons with disabilities constitute a skilled labour force and are part of the response to the major labour shortage problem we are facing.

Here's our first recommendation.

SPHERE-Québec recommends that the Opportunities Fund for Persons with Disabilities be made permanent.

In light of employability statistics for persons with disabilities, much clearly remains to be done. Since 1997, more than 4,000 persons with disabilities in Quebec have improved their employability by taking advantage of one of the program's measures. To date, approximately half have remained active, that is to say employed, self-employed or at an educational institution. Based on the decisive results of the Opportunities Fund in Quebec, SPHERE-Québec recommends that the program become permanent.

Here's our second recommendation.

SPHERE-Québec recommends that additional budgets be granted to the Opportunities Fund to introduce pre-employability pilot projects. Persons with disabilities who live far away from the labour market have numerous needs that create as many barriers to job entry. That's why the partners in the Quebec regions are inventing new job entry models and implementing them in the context of concrete projects.

SPHERE-Québec is already funding a number of pre-employability pilot projects and encouraging the spread of these models. These innovative projects, backed by the communities, are built not only on the basis of the employability needs of persons with disabilities, but also in accordance with the region's socio-economic structure. Persons with disabilities who have the opportunity to take part in a pre-employability pilot project enter the labour force better prepared, more skilled and thus more able to keep their jobs and develop.

Other models could be tested with young persons with disabilities to improve their employability levels.

Based on the suitability of these pre-employability projects for the clientele, SPHERE-Québec hopes to continue its cooperation on pilot projects and, consequently, recommends that additional funding be allocated to this kind of project in the Opportunities Fund.

I'm going to let Ms. Vincent give you a concrete example to illustrate how well cooperation among partners is working.

[Lyn Vincent, Project Agent, SPHERE-Québec (Soutien à la personne handicapée en route vers l'emploi au Québec)]

Here's an example of an employability development project that we have supported in Montérégie.

The project was implemented by the Institut québécois des ressources humaines en horticulture. Since this sector has suffered from a labour shortage, the Institute, in cooperation with other regional partners, has introduced horticultural training specifically intended for persons with disabilities. As the training cost has been absorbed by the school commission, the Opportunities Fund has reimbursed participants' transportation expenses, training materials and other costs directly related to their disabilities. This is a group of persons living with mental disabilities and pervasive behavioural disorders.

The purpose was to promote participants' entry into the regular labour market. And the result: 60% of participants entered the labour market.

[Nancy Moreau]

Here's our third recommendation.

SPHERE-Québec recommends that the Opportunities Fund be improved to take into account the actual needs of persons with disabilities.

Persons with disabilities isolated from the labour market are suffering from a triple disability. In addition to their functional limitations, they generally have little or no training and little or no work experience. For these people, the path to employment involves a number of step consistent with the rate of development of their employability.

The needs of persons with disabilities are not apparent solely at the start of the process, but may arise from time to time once they are employed. To maintain their employability levels, it is essential that the Opportunities Fund provide support to promote their employment retention.

In view of the many needs of persons with disabilities and the necessity of promoting their employment over the long term, SPHERE-Québec recommends, among other things, that consideration be given to the idea of funding job retention activities in the context of the Opportunities Fund.

Here's our fourth recommendation.

SPHERE-Québec wishes to remain the preferred partner in Quebec for the implementation of the Opportunities Fund.

Still with the same team since the Opportunities Fund was established in 1997, SPHERE-Québec has obviously developed undeniable expertise in assessing the actual needs of persons with disabilities. The SPHERE-Québec team has become part of the community's resources by putting in place a structure making it possible to work together with those resources in order to respond more effectively to the needs of persons with disabilities, which avoids overlap and helps to optimize the use of each resource.

Lastly, through its original structure, expertise, efficient management, promotional tools and results since 1997, SPHERE-Québec is the ideal candidate to remain the preferred partner in Quebec in implementing the Opportunities Fund for persons with disabilities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Ms. Moreau.

Mr. Clermont, you have the floor for seven minutes, please.

[Pierre-Alexandre Clermont, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee members, we are here to give you our observations on the implementation of the Federal Student Work Experience Program, commonly called FSWEP. On behalf of the students hired under that program, we are going to present a summary of the brief on the implementation of FSWEP and its impact on employability. For analysis purposes, we refer to our work experience at Parks Canada, at the Chambly Canal historic site.

[Marie-Pier Archambault, As an Individual]

First, let's analyze the discriminatory nature of the irregular implementation of the Student Employment Policy. That policy states in a number of places the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of student status. Furthermore, at paragraph 5.3(c), it states:

[...] managers wishing to assign students a full set of classified duties should instead appoint them to a classified position through the regular staff process, and pay them at the classified rate.

At the Chambly Canal, students hired as part of the FSWEP perform the duties of a classified position, but receive the rate of pay relating to the diploma required for the position, that is to say a high school diploma. This situation has the effect of causing serious discrimination toward the students, since they are paid $8.95 an hour, compared to a rate of $19.85 an hour for students occupying a classified position. This discrimination has a harmful effect on employability in the federal public service. The students who are the victims of this situation lose confidence in the machinery of government, which results in sharply diminished interest in having a career in the public service. The government thus finds itself deprived not only of a high-quality labour force, but also of the expertise acquired by the students as part of their employment. Consequently, the irregular implementation of the policy creates a discriminatory situation resulting in a diminished view of government as an employer.

Second, notwithstanding the foregoing analysis, let us look at the impact on employability of a lack of reasonable progression up the salary scale at the time of subsequent assignments. On this point, Schedule A of the students' employment contract at Parks Canada recognizes the principle of progression in compensation based on education through the development of guidelines for determining pay rates. Managers are thus recognized as having discretionary authority regarding pay rates to be applied to students.

At the Chambly Canal, all student employees receive the same rate of pay, despite their years of experience. For example, one student employee studying for a master's degree who has three years' experience is receiving the same rate of pay as a new student employee who has just earned a high school diploma. Consequently, it may be concluded that managers are not using their discretionary authority. The resulting effects on employability are not negligible. It must also be recognized that the more students specialize through postsecondary training, the more their education costs increase. This has serious consequences. Since students are unable to save enough money during the summer, they must work more during regular academic sessions. In some cases, this situation extends the time required to earn a diploma, which entails additional costs to society, since this specialized labour force is slow in entering the labour market. We must therefore consider student compensation as an investment. Consequently, the lack of a reasonable progression in student pay scales results in additional costs for both students and society.

[Pierre-Alexandre Clermont]

Third, let's analyze the monitoring and control mechanism for student hiring at Parks Canada. The Public Service Commission has authority to conduct monitoring and audit activities with respect to the implementation of the FSWEP under paragraph 7(b) of the Student Employment Policy. However, in view of the agency status that Parks Canada enjoys, the Public Service Commission does not consider it has authority to conduct monitoring and audit activities with respect to it. Consequently, agency status has the effect of excluding the agency from any form of monitoring and audit, and thus opens the door to discrimination and violation of the rights of those we claim to be the future and wealth of our Canadian community.

In light of the established facts, here's a list of solutions that we propose in order to correct the deficiencies in the FSWEP's implementation. They may be summarized as follows: establish a commission of inquiry to identify all possible violations of the policy and student employment conditions; create or grant an independent agency power to investigate any assignment that is the subject of a complaint or submit to it every organization that uses or benefits from a student employment program; protect the anonymity of complainants and set specific rules prohibiting any form of reprisal against students who complain about an irregular situation; forward copies of relevant documents from the time of hiring to all employees so that they are informed of their rights; and, lastly, pay full compensation to all students who have been the victims of discrimination as a result of the irregular implementation of the FSWEP.

Committee members, on behalf of students, we thank you for listening to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Merci.

Monsieur D'Amours, seven minutes, please.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clermont or Ms. Archambault, could you clarify for us what the FSWEP is? Is it the Summer Career Placements Program?

[Pierre-Alexandre Clermont]

No, it's the Federal Student Work Experience Program, which promotes student employment.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you. I'm going to look into that.

The question of dedicated transfers is important. We discussed this a bit during the last Parliament, the thirty-eighth. Dedicated transfers make it possible to allocate sums to the right place. This isn't a lack of trust, but it would make sure that the amounts are allocated to postsecondary education.

Mr. Beausoleil, you mentioned that 75% to 90% of books at the postsecondary level are in English. Has a study been conducted on this subject?

I'm going to go further. I'm from New Brunswick and a graduate of the Université de Moncton, which is a Francophone university. I would have said quite the contrary, that 25% of the books provided by the university are in English. I've had a fair bit of education: I hold two bachelor's degrees and two certificates, and I'm in the process of completing my master's degree. I have taken my courses with approximately 25%t of books in English. I'm not saying that's good, because it's not always easy for a Francophone to study in English.

Are the figures of 75% to 90% based on research? Do they depend on the type of training? For example, is the shortage of books in French perhaps more of a problem in medicine than business administration or other fields? Can you give us any further details?

[Jean-Marc Beausoleil]

The documents you'll be receiving — we only have them in French here — describe studies and library inventories. Officially, 75% of books are in English. Seventy-five percent of the books of university libraries are in English. If you exclude obsolete books, you get approximately 80% or 90% of books in English for all sectors.

In the field of Roman studies, which isn't high technology, the books are in English. In political science, the books are also in English, particularly those from the European Union.

In our view, this situation is undesirable because it creates a handicap, which undermines equality of opportunity between French- and English-speaking Canadians. If we rely on the studies conducted in the United States, it creates an average comprehension handicap of 18%.

Studies have been conducted: 75% of books are in English. As regards French books in libraries, the situation is deteriorating at an alarming rate, as a result of which all books will be completely in English within 15 years.

I went to the aerospace school in Montreal, which is a vocational school. At first, people attending a vocational school don't have very good mastery of their mother tongue. In addition, all the books at that school are in English. The drop-out rate there is also astounding.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

We're really talking about libraries.

[Jean-Marc Beausoleil]

It's the libraries, but if you take courses in Roman history, political science or medicine, you work with English books. Currently, 92% of medical books are English. This situation results in a lot of students dropping out.

In biology, 50% of students drop out of their courses. They don't just need to register for a course, they also need to learn a new language. That's not right. It's right to learn in English in order to work, but learning should be done in one's mother tongue. That would ensure equality of opportunity for English- and French-speaking Canadians.

If the English Canadian education system were in the same situation as that of the French Canadian system, there'd be an unbelievable drop-out rate and a sharp drop in marks. That's not normal. That's an incoherent situation.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I'd also like to hear your comments on dedicated funding transfers.

What measures do you recommend we take to reverse the situation?

[Jean-Marc Beausoleil]

As we said earlier, this is a national problem that's playing out against an educational backdrop. It's very important to understand this subtle distinction. This concerns official languages, employability, the standard of living of French-speaking Canadians, immigration and the integration of immigrants.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Does that mean that textbooks should be required to be in both official languages? I'm not saying the government should translate them, but I wonder whether legislation should be passed to make these books available in both languages.

[Jean-Marc Beausoleil]

That would be normal. I don't live in India. I don't pay my taxes in that country either. In India, they may have serious problems of this kind, but we live here, and we have rights. Canada is founded on equality between English- and French-speaking Canadians. We've already chosen the path of the knowledge economy. Sixty years ago, this was a less serious issue than it is today; it's fundamentally important, particularly in a knowledge economy context. There has to be equality. That's what we're suggesting.

We've taken seven years to reach a consensus across Canada. We've described the situation. What we want is for a conference to be held, for the federal government and all Canadian ministries of education to attend it, for them to address the problem openly and for a series of measures to be developed to solve the problem quickly. That's feasible. There's no such thing as a problem without a solution.

This problem is currently being hidden under the table. Incidentally, the federal government invests billions of dollars in education annually. It's important to mention that fact. The Canadian Forces, for example, has a budget of $2 billion for occupational training. People don't realize this, but the Canadian Forces is the biggest ministry of education in Canada. It trains doctors, lawyers, dentists and psychologists. They're all trained in English. That's not normal.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So in the brief that we're going to receive, and that will be translated in order to meet the committee's regulations, we'll find recommendations stating exactly what the government should do.

[Jean-Marc Beausoleil]

That's correct.