Human Resources Committee on June 8th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We need to talk about motions now. If you look at your package, after the orders of the day, you have before you a scheduled timeline of what we are going to do over the next few meetings. Then after that we have a proposed motion on day care. I know there were three different motions that came before us. This is a proposal that was put together by the clerk to encompass all three of those motions.

What I need in order to move forward is unanimous consent on this motion so that we can discuss this motion before us, if that's something we want to do. Then if we want to make amendments to this, that's what I would ask of this committee right now.

So do we have unanimous consent to move forward with this motion the way the clerk has taken all three motions together to discuss it? Okay, we have unanimous consent.

So then we can move forward, and we'll talk about this motion the way it stands and whether it needs to be amended or looked at. But now we're going to be working on the motion that the clerk has provided for us.

The proposal of the motion of day care was to integrate all three motions. So we just agreed:

That the Committee studies the impact of the repeal, in each province, of the agreements concerning the National Childcare Program,

That the Committee examines the principles behind the models of childcare adopted in Quebec, Manitoba, Ontario and in the other provinces and territories,

That the Committee studies the April 2006 Statistics Canada report entitled “Child Care in Canada”,

And that the committee report on the matter of childcare in Canada to the House.

Are we okay with the way that motion stands? Do we want to have some discussion?

Yes, Mr. Martin.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes. There are a couple of things we have some concerns with, although we want to work to find some compromise.

We want it to be a bit more focused, and if it's possible, we want to have a friendly amendment that would suggest that the committee examine the models of child care adopted in Quebec, Manitoba, Ontario, and other provinces and territories, because we want the models, not just the principles, to be examined.

For example, there's a really wonderful trial on a new approach to child care that has come out of Toronto, called Toronto First Duty, that we'd like to look at so that everybody here can share what we find in our examination with the rest of the country, and other people would know what's going on there.

That is one recommendation I would make. I would also suggest that we might want to look at setting a date of November of this year to report back to Parliament.

Also, part two of our original motion is missing, so let me just read it again:

There has been much talk of the principles embedded in successful models. These principles, such as respecting community needs, the integration of services (such as the First Duty model in Toronto), affordability, parental involvement, licensing, and a measurement to determine quality, should be examined as well, as far as we're concerned.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Martin, I'm just talking to the clerk. Let's look at one thing at a time here.

I want to know if there is agreement. You've suggested that the second line read, “that the Committee examines the models....”. Okay. I have “behind the models”.

So could you just clarify what the original proposal was? Was it then, “that the Committee examines the principles and models”?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

That would be fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

It is “behind the models”.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

No, it is, “and the models”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. So it's, “that the Committee examines the principles and models of childcare adopted in Quebec...” .

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

So that is the first amendment. Is there any more discussion on that? Is there any concern with that?

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

My concern is whether we want to study the nation, not just the three provinces. This is just a study of three provinces. What about the other provinces and territories?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

It says, “and other provinces”.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

We have a national program, so I think we should--

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Yelich, in the last part it says, “and in the other provinces and territories”, so we have highlighted a few there, but it does cover off all the provinces.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

I think that's a bit redundant, then. I think maybe it should just say that we are studying the principles and models, perhaps. I don't think we need, “Quebec, Manitoba, and Ontario”, that it be specific to them. If we're going to be studying them all, I'm not sure they have to be particularly cited, but I don't really see a problem with that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Is there any other discussion?

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, are we going to debate the merits? We would like to tell you what we think about this matter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Right now we're on the amendment that Mr. Martin has proposed in terms of the wording of the second line, which would be:

That the Committee examines the principles and models of childcare adopted in Quebec, Manitoba and Ontario and in the other provinces and territories.

So that is the only thing we are debating, and I'm going to call the vote in a second.

Is everyone in favour, then, of that original motion?

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Let me speak about this issue, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Go ahead.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, we will vote against the amendment for the following reason. I will speak about the first part, but also about the amendment, which is included in the main motion.

With regard to the first part, we know that it amounts to $807 million for Quebec. This is straightforward. Then, regarding principles and models, let me say that in Quebec, we already have a sizeable program. I think that the other provinces would not be welcome if they tried to tell us how to manage and implement the program. Likewise, they can reasonably expect that we will not come and lecture them and tell them how to implement and manage their program.

Mr. Chairman, despite all the respect we have for the other provinces, our conclusion is that this is a provincial responsibility. This is why we will vote against the amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Lessard, I know that Mr. Martin wanted to mention something.

My thought on this would be that Mr. Martin is asking us to look at what has been happening to the provinces, as a frame of reference, but not to tell them in any way, shape, or form how they should be managing their child care programs—instead, using them as an example as to whether there's some best practices that maybe the rest of the country would benefit from.

Mr. Martin, is that pretty much what you're looking for?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's the context. I believe it says there that the committee would examine the principles and the models of child care that have already been adopted by these various provinces in the rest of the country. So we would be able to make reference to these or provide other examples of the way it's being done in other provinces.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

A committee will almost never look into an issue without expressing its opinion on what the government should do about it. Otherwise, I do not see any point in doing this work. It should be clear that the committee will have an idea of the amount of work to be done. This is why we will vote against the amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Are there any other comments before I call the vote on this specific amendment?

To be clear, the amendment is that the committee examines the principles and models of child care adopted in Quebec, Manitoba, Ontario, and other provinces and territories.

All in favour?