Human Resources Committee on June 8th, 2006

[Andrew Treusch]

Correct. Typically--and you'll find this in the deck as well--this is a reference to higher employment in our peak summer months, in our short summer period here, the June to August period, compared to the winter months of January to March.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

In our unemployment rates, then, how much of that 6.4% unemployment rate would be accounted for by our seasonal workers?

[Andrew Treusch]

In terms of our employment--which as I appreciate isn't what you asked--there is the number here. As a proportion of our employment base, it's 3% or 3.1%. In terms of unemployment, that's what we mean by seasonally adjusted unemployment, so that you don't see that when you're looking at it. So those data obviously exist, and certainly as well, we've brought to this committee many times the statistics on seasonal workers as a proportion of employment insurance recipients and the like. So those data certainly exist.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Switching gears here, one of the big challenges we have in rural Alberta is not just the skilled.... And I don't really like those terms, “skilled” and “non-skilled” workers, because when you're talking about farm labourers there is quite a training time and most of these guys take four, five, or six months to actually train. In our temporary foreign workers program, you can only actually be here for a year. One of the big problems we have with this program is the inability, once you get these people trained, to keep them on for one or two years. I realize this may be an immigration issue, but I'd like you to speak to that a little and whether there's something we can do in that regard.

[Andrew Treusch]

You're asking about the temporary foreign workers program and some of its conditions. I wonder if I can ask my colleague Mr. Larose.

[Peter Larose, Director General, Workplace Partnerships Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Social Development]

I'm not an expert, but I do know a little about this.

You're absolutely right. First of all, in regard to your point about high skills versus low skills, we actually have a national occupational system that puts the skills in four categories: A, B, C, D. You're absolutely right, A can be very high skilled, but D still has some level of skill, and you go down. And you're right, in the temporary foreign worker program for C and D you can only stay a maximum of 12 months.

We've done some pilot studies, particularly on truckers, about this, and we're trying to figure out whether it's right. I'm not saying everything at C is lower than everything at B. It's not a perfect system, and the skill requirements of jobs are constantly changing so we're constantly revisiting the classification to make sure it is right.

But I think the basic thrust would be, again, as Andrew was alluding to earlier, before we bring in a temporary foreign worker we ask ourselves if the employer advertised for the job. Clearly, the higher up you go, the harder it is going to be to find somebody who can do a job.

At the lower levels what we're doing is protecting the system a little bit, particularly if the economy changes. So we bring in Andrew from overseas, we give him some training, but in the meantime the economy may have changed and there may be people who can do that work. Part of what we're doing is saying, after 12 months, Andrew, you have to go back and the employer has to relook and see whether other people can do the job. We find that at the lower levels that's often the case, and there are people who can do the job.

Is the system perfect? Absolutely not, and particularly in Alberta right now with the unemployment rate so low, it makes it difficult. But again, it's something the system is trying to adapt to in terms of how fast the labour market is changing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You have 20 seconds left, Ms. Yelich. Did you have a quick question?

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

A very quick question.

When other people are on unemployment you are always making sure they're out there looking for employment during their time out of the workforce. Do you do that with the seasonal workers, keeping in line with your insurance principles? Do you--I'm going to use the word “harass”--harass them? That's what I get told. People say, we get harassed by the unemployment department and they're insisting we're not out there looking for jobs during this time. But do you do that with the seasonal workers?

Yes or no is good enough.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Where we're at right now we normally go into motions. It is 10:30. But it is the will of the committee if there are more questions we want to ask. If we feel we can do that, the Bloc is the next up. In terms of the committee, as we have these experts here to talk about some labour issues, do we want to continue on with a couple more questions? It's the will of the committee.

The answer is yes.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I've just got a short question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Earlier, you mentioned adult learning. Personally, I am a visual type. You said that $38 million were available and that a $3 million agreement had been reached with Quebec. I would like to know where the $3 million came from.

You also mentioned the National Literacy Secretariat, but you did not say how much money had been allotted to it. Who negotiated the $3 million agreement with Quebec? This means about 50¢ for each citizen. This kind of money will not even buy you a cup of coffee.

I want to get answers to these questions.

[Donna Kirby]

Historically there has been a provincial-territorial envelope established within the national literacy program. That envelope, every year, is valued at approximately $13.7 million. Those funds are used to support literacy initiatives in every province and territory. As I mentioned, I believe the Quebec agreement this year is worth about $3 million. I will have to verify that to give you the exact number. This is the envelope that is used to support, in cooperation with every provincial and territorial government, literacy activities in their jurisdiction.

In addition to that, there is a national envelope that we have brought together in companionship with the national literacy program, the Office of Learning Technologies, and also the learning initiatives program. These are two adult learning programs in HRSDC. This allows us to combine literacy activities with prior learning assessment and also with learning technologies to provide more effective and stronger results.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

This basically means that the National Literacy Secretariat only exists on paper. It has no funds.

[Donna Kirby]

The allocation is to the program itself. The secretariat is the organization that administers the program.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I do want to thank our witnesses for coming in today.

Mr. Treusch, I think you guys have done a great job with the decks. I know that some of these things are fairly complicated and very intertwined. There isn't necessarily any black and white. They are complicated issues, and I think you've done a great job in your department outlining these decks for us today to give us an overview of what's going on with literacy and with some of these other issues such as older workers and seasonal workers.

Thank you and all your colleagues very much for coming in and enlightening us today. We appreciate the time you've spent. I know that we've got a bit better understanding to move forward with on this study over the next few weeks and months. So thanks once again for taking the time to join us this morning.

[Andrew Treusch]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. We have made certain commitments today to provide additional information, and we will do so forthwith, through the chair, for all members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Perfect. Thank you.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

If they have any ideas to move forward on what we might be learning, or on what we should learn about employability in our travels this year, I would appreciate hearing them. If they have any suggestions regarding the questions that were asked, perhaps they can forward some suggestions to us.

Also, do you have a breakdown of what the literacy rates are for each province?

[Donna Kirby]

Yes, we have literacy rates for each province. They were released last year with the release of the International Adult Literacy Survey.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

Okay, because in response to Mr. D'Amour's comment, if people can't read or write, then I think we have to be looking at the early education as well, probably.

[Donna Kirby]

Can I make a comment on that?

Our information shows where people are placed on the continuum of literacy, not whether people are literate or illiterate. We're not looking at a situation where they can't or they can read. Individuals and populations are placed on the international literacy scale that has been agreed to with all of the OECD countries. So it allows populations and individuals to see themselves on the continuum.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

Okay. That clears it up a little more. Thank you.