Human Resources Committee on June 8th, 2006

[John Atherton]

I'm not an expert in EI part 1, but I am familiar with the reasons why the Government of Canada decided to waive the two-week waiting period. I do believe it to be associated with the risk to health for people staying in the workplace when it would be better for them to stay home. In that particular instance, I believe that was the case. But we will confirm, and we can probably send you the press release so that it's quite clear why the government announced that.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That would be greatly appreciated.

I said a little earlier that I tabled a private member's bill. That's something, but have the various Human Resources and Social Development officers in the regions made comments to the effect that the two-week waiting period—and we know that it's not really two weeks, but up to eight weeks—is an irritant, because it puts people who need employment insurance in financial straits?

Is it true that you've heard comments, either from regional offices or provincial offices—and I'm referring to Human Resources and Social Development—that eliminating the two-week waiting period might be considered in the near future?

[Andrew Treusch]

It's a very daunting question.

We have 320 regional offices, and we have 22,000 regional employees. We process millions of dollars in benefit payments. In doing so, we certainly hear a great many comments, some positive and some negative, and many suggestions for changes to EI.

I'm sure the answer to the member's question is yes, but I'm not able to speak more authoritatively than that.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Okay. That's it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to move on to our next questioner, Madam Bonsant.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Good morning. My question is directed to Mr. Atherton.

Mr. D'Amours spoke of the two-week waiting period he has asked to have abolished. You are aware that in Toronto, because of SARS, this two-week period was waived. In Quebec, the two-week waiting period was also waived following the ice storm.

What's the difference between that sort of situation and a company which has burnt down?

There's a company in my riding which went up in flames and the people involved had to wait two weeks. What's the difference, in your opinion, between a natural disaster like an ice storm and a fire?

[John Atherton]

I want to respectfully say that we came here to talk about the employability of older workers and seasonal workers. I'm a director general of active employment measures. I'm not an expert on EI part I or the particular program rules and the specificity in individual situations of comparison.

I believe there have been opportunities for the committee to pursue questions on EI. I know the two-week waiting period and questions around it are a subject of some interest in the report that has been retabled. I'm not an expert in the area. Should you want to pursue the line of questioning, it's probably best to do so with experts on the insurance side.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I'll ask the minister that question.

Let's talk about the literacy initiative. You indicated you have an annual budget of $6 million. However, you've forgotten about the National Literacy Secretariat. Does it still exist? What funding does it get? What agreement exists between the Government of Canada and Quebec?

[Andrew Treusch]

I'll say a couple of general words, and then I'll turn it over to Ms. Kirby.

Yes. On the deck, because we were asked by the committee to address workplace literacy, the material that you have focuses on workplace literacy. We are very proud of the National Literacy Secretariat, which is not described in the deck. It does have a budget and has seen a recent budget increase.

Ms. Kirby can speak of this more authoritatively.

[Donna Kirby, Acting Director General, Canada National Literacy Programs, Department of Human Resources and Social Development]

We have a budget for adult learning and literacy for this year that is in the order of $38.8 million.

In the spring of this year, the adult learning and literacy initiatives at HRSDC were integrated in order to provide increased horizontality, coherence, and a better strategic orientation. The National Literacy Secretariat has continued to play a key role in adult literacy in the country, and it will continue to do so.

In regard to Quebec, a five-year protocole d'entente is in place right now with Quebec. Within that five-year protocol, there is an agreement signed every year. There is one in place right now, and there will be efforts towards negotiating the final agreement within the five-year protocol very soon.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Are you saying that you can't recall what amount of money was transferred to Quebec? Or don't you know yet? That means it still hasn't been signed.

[Donna Kirby]

The agreement for this year—and I will have to confirm this—is in the order of $3 million.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Bonsant, you have one minute left.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Okay.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I can ask the next question, if you want.

I'd like to continue the discussion on employability. I'd like to pick up on my colleague's question. Mr. Atherton said that it wasn't so much an issue of employability. But I think there is a direct relationship with employability, especially when employment insurance benefits are received immediately and when employment insurance conditions enable people to remain in their regions. When you lose your job, whether it be for the mid- or long-term, you look for employment outside the region.

In closing, I think that regional employability can have ramifications. Do you agree?

[John Atherton]

I do think so. All I meant was that if you wanted to get into the particularities—it's a very complex system on the employment or income benefit side, as you know—then you would need an expert in part 1 of the EI Act if you want to be properly advised. There'll be no disagreement here; it helps people look for jobs and takes care of them when they don't have a job.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

That ends the time for the questioner.

We're going to move to the NDP now, and Madame Savoie, for five minutes.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to revisit the underemployment issue. Mr. Treusch said a little earlier that there were many reasons for this phenomenon. Among other things, I'd like to hear your comments on the relationship between low literacy levels and underemployment.

[Andrew Treusch]

This term “underemployment” can have many meanings, and in answering your question I may not have addressed it in the way you chose.

Certainly, one of the things that are most evident and least controversial is the strong relationship between levels of educational attainment and labour market performance. This is well documented, so your likelihood of gaining employment, your likelihood of gaining secure employment, your likelihood of having good earnings, and even of good social outcomes and good health outcomes, and things like these, are all strongly correlated with your level of educational attainment.

We know there is also a strong correlation with literacy, as shown by a study out within the last very few days, for example. For sure, this ought to be a real concern of Canada. There is no question that individuals who have low levels of literacy and numeracy are very disadvantaged in the Canadian labour market; they will be least likely to find employment, they will be most likely to face unemployment, and their employment prospects will be limited—increasingly so—by their levels of literacy.

This actually has sparked an unfavourable observation about Canada by the OECD, that in terms of adult education, we really don't perform as well as we should for a country that actually has a very strong education system overall.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

I raised the question because of one member's comments about moving people around from one part of Canada to another. I guess I'm concerned that we haven't paid enough attention to the soft skills that really relate directly to the capacity to hold a job.

If I may, I also had a question about the National Literacy Secretariat. I believe Ms. Kirby mentioned that the $38 million or so in funds had been integrated to offer more horizontality, but that the secretariat would continue to play a role. Can you tell me how these funds are going to play out, or how provinces or groups will be able to access these funds? I know there were concerns about funding of CAP sites and how various groups were able to access literacy funds in local communities.

[Donna Kirby]

At present, the adult learning and literacy programs at HRSDC work very closely with each of the provincial and territorial governments, with business associations, with union associations, with the voluntary sector. We support activities that they put in place.

In the very near future--this is expected to have a national dimension as well as a local-regional dimension--there will be a public call for proposals on adult learning and literacy from across the country. There will be selections made by expert panels, and we hope that new agreements will be put in place in the near future.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Will these proposals be open to non-profit, to business, etc.?

[Donna Kirby]

There are specific eligibility criteria, but in general they're quite open. There are possibilities for contribution agreements or for grants. Grants are available to voluntary sector organizations.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Are these public at the moment? Have they been...?

[Donna Kirby]

We're expecting that the call will be released in the very near future.