Human Resources Committee on April 26th, 2007

[Janet Davis]

I would simply say that if we're offered the keys and promised the keys, you had better not snatch them away before giving us the opportunity to get in the car.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Janet Davis]

The problem is that if the federal government does not put strings on the dollars offered to provinces, those funds may not end up where it is intended for them to go. It's that simple.

In Toronto, we had expected and planned and had begun building and implementing a comprehensive plan of services, and then—whoosh—gone. Now, even if there is more money, there's no agreement in place and the Ontario government is under no obligation to pass on this new federal money.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I would point out a couple of other things.

First of all, what this bill expressly does is offer the federal government the opportunity to snatch the keys away at any moment, except in the case of Quebec.

Secondly, we have clear lines of accountability jurisdictionally for certain issues. This issue, clearly the jurisdictional accountability, points directly at your province. I think you're expressing that you have some great difficulty with the way your province has decided to spend their money, the priorities that your province has set in Ontario.

[Janet Davis]

If I could just respond—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

No, I have some other questions, and I have very limited time.

I want to talk about the Quebec issue. How do each of you in the provinces or territories, as it were, feel about the fact that Quebec has a full opt-out clause, with no exception whatsoever? They can take their money and do what they want with it, as opposed to your option, in which none of you has any opt-out clause whatsoever. If you don't do exactly what is being demanded by the federal government, you do not get the money.

How do you feel about that? Don't you think it should be fair for everybody?

[Jeanette MacAulay]

That's too much of a political decision that I'm not prepared to talk about.

[Judy Streatch]

I will defer to Quebec to answer that question.

It's not one that I'm prepared to venture into. I'm the Minister of Community Services for Nova Scotia. I'm here to advocate on behalf of Nova Scotians and Nova Scotian families. I will leave Quebec to advocate for itself.

[Charles Dent]

Similar to Quebec and Alberta, I think we would say that it is an area of exclusive jurisdiction for the provinces and territories. While we're willing to come to the table and negotiate, as we did for the 2003 accord, we respected each other's differences. So Quebec in that agreement had a unique treatment. All of the provinces and territories had unique treatment. We were able to agree to that.

I think that's the way to go.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Ruby Dhalla]

Ten more seconds, sorry.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I'll just make the point that coming from Alberta, I recognize, especially from having been on this committee, that what works in Alberta definitely doesn't necessarily work in the maritimes, or in the territories, or in Quebec. I think that's the key point we're trying to get across here—that the provinces have the right to make the best decision for their own voters, they're accountable to those voters, and that's what's important.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Ruby Dhalla]

We're going to the second round of questioning now.

Mr. Savage, for five minutes.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to everybody. In particular, welcome to my friends from Nova Scotia. It's always a good day for Ottawa when somebody comes from Nova Scotia, usually bringing some wise advice.

One of the real highlights of my short time as a member of Parliament was the day we signed the agreement on early learning and child care in Nova Scotia. Dr. Hamm was excited about it. I think David Morse might have been the minister at the time. Ken Dryden, Paul Martin—we signed this at the Shearwater family resource centre. For people in the crowd, heroes in child care in Nova Scotia—Sue Wolstenholme, Pat Hogan, Margo Kirk—people who had been advocating for this for years, it was the dawn of a much better day.

I assume you share the support of the early learning and child care initiative that was signed on that day in May, Minister, do you not?

[Judy Streatch]

Today is a new day. What happened in the past was celebrated in Nova Scotia. The event that I know you were at personally, I know Nova Scotia celebrated it. We certainly did sign and we did support that agreement.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Okay.

I want to read a couple of letters that I received. The reason I want to take some time to do this is that the Action Coalition for Early Childhood Education and Care Nova Scotia, as well as the Nova Scotia Coalition of Non Profit Directors have both asked to be witnesses, and they were unable to be witnesses here. Knowing that the minister was going to speak, I'm going to just read some of the comments they sent me.

This is to all members of the committee:

Dear Members We are writing on behalf of the Action Coalition to let you know that our Coalition strongly supports Bill C-303. This bill, when passed, will be the first step toward building the child care system that Canadians need and want—In the 37 years since the Royal Commission on the Status of Women's recommendations, far too many Canadian children and parents have had to endure haphazard, questionable quality and at times even dangerous ECLC arrangements. We understand that the government of Nova Scotia is speaking against this bill. We want you to know that we do not support their position. We strongly urge you to support Bill C-303.

I note that it is signed by Sue Wolstenholme, who has fought for child care for probably four decades in Halifax, and Theresa Griffin.

The Nova Scotia Coalition of Non Profit Directors says, among other things:We write to you in order to express our strong support for Bill C-303 and to express our shock that our province does not support such a landmark piece of legislation. Currently, in Nova Scotia, the reality is that families do not benefit from a comprehensive early childhood education and care system. Most families, more accurately, struggle with a collection of programs and services which are costly and not accessible to all those in need—Families need services they can depend on, irregardless of socio-economic status or geographic location. Life long learning and education for all is a right, not a privilege. Nova Scotia needs the leadership and accountability that Bill C-303 would provide.

I didn't read everything because it would take some time, but I'll make the letters available. Mr. Lake, I know, will want to study these, and other members will have the opportunity as well.

In light of the fact that the minister was presenting, the child care community in Nova Scotia was very excited on that day in May when we signed these agreements. They almost unanimously, in my view, were excited about it.

It is a new day. It's a slightly darker day than the one we had, in my view, a couple of years ago. I do hope the Government of Nova Scotia is able to make some steps forward on child care. I know the minister has indicated some of the steps they're taking, but we lost an awful lot when that agreement went down the tubes, and I think it's a real shame.

Do I have time for a question?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Ruby Dhalla]

You have a minute and a half.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

So tell me again, was it $7 million that was contributed from the federal budget to Nova Scotia? Is that what I heard in the comments?

[Judy Streatch]

That's additional dollars this year, Mr. Savage, yes.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

And the money that would have been provided, we said, was $135 million over five years?

[Judy Streatch]

It was $137 million.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Of which we received how much?

[Judy Streatch]

The amount of $39.4 million.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

So $39 million of the $137 million.

[Judy Streatch]

The first two years.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

So that's a pretty significant amount of money that would be lost. And the provincial government is able to make up how much of that over the five years?