Evidence of meeting #72 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Claudette Pitre-Robin  Administrator, Association québécoise des centres de la petite enfance
Laurel Rothman  National Coordinator, Campaign 2000
Martha Friendly  Member, Steering Committee, Campaign 2000
Morna Ballantyne  Volunteer, Code Blue for Child Care
Sue Colley  Volunteer, Code Blue for Child Care
John Huether  Volunteer Member of Executive Council, Council of Champions, Success by Six Peel
Lorna Reid  Director, Early Years Integration, Children's Services, Region of Peel
Jonathan Thompson  Director, Social Development, Assembly of First Nations
Nancy Matychuk  As an Individual
Harvey Lazar  Adjunct Professor, School of Public Administration, As an Individual
Jay Davis  Barrie Christian Council, Mapleview Community Church, As an Individual
Kate Tennier  As an Individual

10:30 a.m.

Volunteer Member of Executive Council, Council of Champions, Success by Six Peel

John Huether

With regard to your comment about the 1.5% of GDP, I'd like to say that Canada would be a much better country if it invested this kind of money in a whole range of services that could support young children and their families, so that the kind of people you talked about can be supported in fulfilling their obligations.

Our message in our community is that they want a range of supports. They want child care, and they don't want to be sitting on wait lists while their child grows from six months to three years. They want a range of services, and it's embarrassing for this country, as rich as it is, to be investing the little amount of money.

I have no problem with you putting $1,200 into the hands of parents in relation to this, as long as you provide additional services that they can afford and have access to. That's what's missing in this current arrangement.

With all due respect, the enormous cut that your government made in relation to the child care agreements is appalling. That should be built on, not cut, and go at it from both sides of the equation.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Mr. Huether.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

I'd like to make a point of clarification. This bill does nothing about a range of choices. It's basically one option; it's not a range of options.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

That's more debate.

I want to thank the witnesses for taking time to be here today. We know that there's a lot of passion, as has been mentioned, on both sides of this debate.

We are going to suspend for a few minutes. However, before we do that, we are handing out some forms right now with regard to the Centennial Flame, and we need it to get approval. We received more requests this year, and this was what the clerk put together to make some sense, in order to get some things. Could we approve this?

Mr. Silva.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me take this opportunity to also thank all the witnesses who were here.

Unfortunately, I won't be here for the second round. As I mentioned to you, Mr. Chair, this committee conflicts with another committee that I have, which starts at 11 o'clock. So I will not be able to stay and ask questions. I had put my name forward to ask questions, but unfortunately with the time running out, I won't be able to.

Thank you.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you.

Madame Bonsant.

10:35 a.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

There is a mistake in the translation. It says "March 10" in French and it should say May 10.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Okay, we'll make a note of that. Thank you very much.

Could we could use this as a form for the Centennial Flame? Is there any more discussion?

(Motion agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Once again, it's just some more housekeeping.

The second thing before us is that we wanted to create a little time for the committee to hear from some of the department officials, so we carved out 30 minutes, if there are any questions we have before starting clause-by-clause on May 10. Are there any concerns about that?

(Motion agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

We're going to suspend for five minutes to set up the video conference for the next round.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

If we could get the members back to their seats, we still have about four or five witnesses we need to hear, and of course we hope to get a couple of rounds of questions in.

We will start off with our witnesses. Mr. Thompson, I'll get you to go first. All the presenters will have seven minutes as we move around the room. We have, as I said, five different witnesses today. If you need translation, it's on here, and you can pick up if there's any translation required.

Mr. Thompson, thank you for being here. I believe you're with the Assembly of First Nations. We look forward to your presentation.

10:45 a.m.

Jonathan Thompson Director, Social Development, Assembly of First Nations

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the committee as well for giving me some time this morning at the eleventh hour. We snuck in at the last minute to share some time with you this morning.

As most of you know, the AFN, the Assembly of First Nations, is the national organization representing first nation citizens in Canada, regardless of age, gender, or residence. I am the director of social development at AFN. Within the health and social secretariat we deal with a number of portfolios specific to our discussion this morning; however, we do deal with early childhood development, child care, the issue of special needs, FASD, and disabilities, just to name a few areas.

Many of our first nations people experience poverty in their early years. It's an issue that has had a lot press over the last little while. We have provided copies to the committee of the 2002-2003 First Nations Regional Longitudinal Health Survey. It's the summative document, not the entire document, but if anyone is interested in getting further information on the full report, please let me know.

That document and that research tell us that one in four first nations children lives in poverty, compared to one in six Canadian children. Over one-third of the homes in which first nations children live are overcrowded. There exists a direct correlation between lower family income, overcrowding, poor nutrition, lower levels of physical activity, and educational achievement among first nations children.

First nations children, we believe sincerely, deserve to be provided with safe and adequate food, water, housing, recreation, child care, and education since they are more likely to experience poor health and poor social and economic conditions later in life.

One way to improve the odds is to improve the financial situation of first nations families. The lack of child care and ECD services can prove to be, and are, important obstacles for first nations families.

Presently first nations families are benefiting from four federal programs. The current ECD programs are the aboriginal head start on reserve program, the aboriginal head start in urban and northern communities program, the first nations and Inuit child care initiative, and the INAC day care funding in Ontario and Alberta.

Some of the issues facing first nations children today with respect to ECD are of course limited resources. Resources are not only limited in the areas of capital, competitive wages, training, and culturally rooted ECD materials; since 1997-98, or for the last decade or so, there has also been an arbitrary 2% cap on spending increases for core services in first nations communities. This has had a devastating effect on the quality of programs and services for first nations people--not just for children, but for families in general.

Since 1996-97, health services and program budgets have been generally frozen at about 3%. The result of these caps is that first nations receive less than one-third of the average 6.6% increase that most Canadians enjoy through the Canada health and social transfers. First nations core program budgets, such as social development and capital facilities, have experienced budget numbers decreased by about 13% since just 1999-2000.

Today there are approximately 250 first nations without regulated child care. There is an important need for sustainable funding for child care and ECD services in general. Earlier this morning I heard mention of a suite of services, the notion that child care alone isn't enough. That's certainly something we firmly believe in, particularly in relation to the situation with the number of first nations children in care and the child and family services numbers that are now finally getting a little bit of attention, starting in the province of Alberta.

First nations are also dealing with a lot of structural and administrative barriers. Various layers to access resources often create confusion in roles and responsibilities among federal, provincial, and territorial governments. There's a lot of jurisdictional wrangling that first nations administrative bodies have to deal with; I don't think mainstream Canada deals with it as much, or on as regular a basis.

Over the last couple of years we have been working, or trying to work, with the federal government on ECD, or early learning and child care. We've dealt with the single-window discussion. We've dealt with the early learning and child care initiative under the past government, which had identified some funding for first nations.

We were actually getting ready, or at least we thought we were, to implement some of these initiatives regionally across the country. But that's not to say that the work has been lost, because we're continuing to try to figure out how best to provide coordinated complementary children's programs and services. The ECD discussion is still alive, and we are certainly attempting to move the discussion forward.

There have been setbacks in the past, as I mentioned. ELCC was contemplating some machinery of government changes at the time. With the change of government, it went by the wayside and we came back to the notion of ECD. Okay, we're really talking about the same thing. It's all about providing those programs and services in a coordinated and efficient fashion for our kids.

At one point, $100 million was identified for children in northern communities that came out of the first ministers discussions in Kelowna. This was lost, and certainly the new Child Care Spaces Initiative has no mention of specific funding for first nations either.

Also, I think there was a large concern that the department heard in their consultations across the country with respect to sustainability of the Child Care Spaces Initiative. That was certainly something we looked at as an obstacle to that particular initiative's success.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

You have about 30 seconds, Mr. Thompson.

10:50 a.m.

Director, Social Development, Assembly of First Nations

Jonathan Thompson

Okay, thank you.

But as I mentioned before, we are moving forward. In consultation with first nations stakeholders and the federal government, we have developed a first nations ECD policy framework that includes the principles of child development, culture and language, special needs, program implementation, jurisdiction, partnerships, and certainly accountability.

I'll skip to the end and quickly mention a couple of things that we'd like to see with respect to Bill C-303. While there is an advisory council for the ministers, we'd certainly like to see sit on that council a first nations representative who can bring some specific expertise with respect to first nations child care issues.

Earlier this morning I heard mention of an exception for Quebec, and perhaps similar language or a similar clause could be used to ensure that funding is set aside specifically for first nations, if such an approach is presently happening with the Province of Quebec.

Thank you.

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Mr. Thompson, for being here.

We're now going, via teleconference, to Nancy Matychuk. You have seven minutes, please.

May 8th, 2007 / 10:55 a.m.

Nancy Matychuk As an Individual

My name is Nancy Matychuk and I very much appreciate the opportunity to address this committee today regarding Bill C-303.

I am not affiliated with any official organization. I am simply expressing an opinion that I believe fairly represents many other Canadian parents who are affected by funding decisions the government makes concerning child care.

As a young adult I trained to work in child care and worked in a day care centre for a few years after completing college. I worked with a wonderful, caring, well-trained, committed group of women; I felt great affection for the children in my care, but I knew even then that if I were blessed with children, I didn't want them to spend their days in that environment. I am now the mother of five children; I have been at home with them since the eldest was born 15 years ago, while my husband has earned our income.

I think I can assume all of us sitting in this room are united in desiring the very best for the children of our society. They are dependent on us to provide the best care and early learning opportunities available. The best I have been able to give my children is to keep them home with me during those important years, and I would recommend it enthusiastically to anyone who would ask. As little ones, they are designed to be dependent on us, and I believe pushing them into premature independence is not the healthiest way for them to grow and learn. I believe that parents at home provide the most creative, specialized, calm, secure environment, and children are allowed to develop at their own unique rate through a natural unhurried process, gradually becoming confident, independent, intelligent, curious, and socially secure.

I know many will disagree with my ideal of the early childhood experience. Many will also find trying to live on one income impractical. I quite understand that not everyone wants to live the way my family lives; they do not wish to forgo breakfast cereal, vacations, cable TV, and visits to the orthodontist.

While we may disagree on what is ideal, it is certainly not my place to make decisions for anyone but my own family. Each parent has the right and responsibility to decide what their own family situation should look like. I do not need you to affirm my choices any more than you need me to affirm yours, but I wonder if we can agree that our different opinions both have validity and are well represented among the taxpaying population.

Just as another family's choices are none of my business, our individual choices are also not government business. You might assume that I want my government to say parents should try to stay at home with their children in the early years, but I don't. I most sincerely do not want my government to make any pronouncements about what is or isn't good parenting. They're in the business of governing, not parenting. Just as I would not presume to make a decision about what is best for someone else's child, the government should not presume to intrude in the business of parenting. They are not equipped for the intricacies of the task.

I believe any bill that pertains to parental issues must intrinsically provide for freedom and diversity. What message does the government send if they have only parents who work outside the home and use day care? Are they the only ones worthy of government assistance, by virtue of their taxable income? Are they the only ones struggling to pay the bills and be good parents? What about families that sacrifice much materially to care for their children at home? What about parents who both work, staggering their work hours so that one of them is home with the children? What about parents who invite extended family to live with them to help with the care of the children? Do these kinds of situations not warrant the government's notice?

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Did we lose the connection there? We did.

Okay, we're going to move on. We'll have to come back and finish that up, for the sake of time.

Oh, she's back? Houston, do we have contact?

11 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Matychuk

Should I continue?

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Go ahead. I believe we have you back on the screen now.

Thank you. You have three minutes left.

11 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Matychuk

Does the government only value lifestyle choices that lead to taxable income? In a country that so values diversity, why would we want everybody to embrace one method of caring for and teaching our young children? Should we not instead reward and recognize the creativity and sacrifice of all parents by helping whoever has financial need?

I appreciate the attempt to help young families with their financial challenges, because it affirms the importance of our children to society at large. At the risk of using a cliché, they are the future of the country, but to parents, they are more than that. To those of us who work in the trenches, civilizing the next generation, they are not a concept or an ideal. We are the ones who fret and worry about how they will make their way in the world. We are the ones listening to them, putting our arms around them, and looking into their eyes trying to understand the inner workings of their minds. We are the ones strategizing how to handle discipline issues and motivate them to reach for lofty goals. Our motives are pure and have nothing to do with money. To us, their parents, they are not the impersonal entity of the future. To us they are much more. They are everything; for them we would do anything. Who is better qualified to decide what is best for them?

I ask my government to provide funding to families who have financial need, regardless of why they are in financial need. Rather than only helping those who require a child care space, I ask you to trust individual families with the details of how they care and provide for their children.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

You have about 15 seconds.

11 a.m.

As an Individual

Nancy Matychuk

They are uniquely qualified to do that.

Are they in financial need because they can't find a job that pays very well? Is it because they're living on one income? Is it because they need to pay someone to care for their children? Is it because they need to move to a bigger place to accommodate a new baby? Does it matter? Is it not enough to recognize that their position as parents places them in financial need? So help their children, all of them

Thank you.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move over to Dr. Lazar, who will give us his presentation now.

11 a.m.

Professor Harvey Lazar Adjunct Professor, School of Public Administration, As an Individual

Good morning, Mr. Chair. Bonjour.

I understood that I might have slightly more than seven minutes. Is that correct, or am I on the seven minute restriction also?

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

For the sake of time this morning, do the best you can. I realize that the clerk indicated you could have a few more minutes, but do what you can to get it in in that seven minutes or slightly over.