Human Resources Committee on June 7th, 2007

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Yelich made a good point, which I'm not sure was fully observed by everyone. In her previous comments she said the information that's going to take the longest to acquire and put together is from this year. They already have the information for previous years. It was sent out to individual MPs. So if we're worried about a date and getting previous years--delaying information that Mr. Savage so dearly wants--that's not a problem. The information is already there. This will not delay it. This will only provide context.

So if you're against context, don't worry about Mr. Lake's motion; oppose it. But your amendment doesn't specify that it's at the same time, and that's what we want. We want it at the same time so there's context. We can move through this very quickly. It's ready now and this will not delay it. So I don't know why we're saying September 1, or something like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, unfortunately I must withdraw my subamendment, for the following reasons.

First, I moved it at the invitation of Mr. Brown, who reminded us that we have worked on matters on which we have all managed to agree. I have tried to reconcile the Conservatives' concerns with our own. However, in view of Mr. Lake's last remarks, I realize that those concerns are not what I had perceived. They are instead strategic concerns for the purpose of preventing the Liberals from using the motion for political ends, whereas that was not our aim. Our intention is to understand what happened, so that we can give answers to our voters during the summer. They are waiting, and they do not understand what happened.

In view of the answer you gave Mr. Savage, that the September 1 date took precedence over the entire motion and delayed the whole thing, we are no further ahead. So I withdraw my subamendment, and I would like us to vote on the motion now as it stands. If Mr. Lake's concern and that of his party is shared, as Ms. Savoie wisely suggested, we could come back to it later. At this point, I think we should agree to the motion as introduced by Mr. Savage.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Do we have unanimous consent from the committee to withdraw Mr. Lessard's subamendment?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

No, because we're willing to support your subamendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay, so we'll continue on the list.

You happen to be next on the list, Mr. Lake, so fire away.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

We will support Mr. Lessard's subamendment and then go to my amendment. Hopefully we'll support that. Then we can go to the actual motion and be done.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

He's putting a timeline on it, though. How is your amendment different?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

My amendment throws the 2003, 2004, and 2005 information in there. He amended it to make the 2003, 2004, and 2005 information reportable by September.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I sense there may be some willingness to work together on this. Do you want to take a few seconds to discuss it? Procedurally we have to withdraw it and move forward, but if there's some kind of consensus we can put a new amendment forward, if it's okay.

Monsieur Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, can we agree for this amendment to be separate, so that we can work now with the results from June 12 and give our voters the relevant information?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I believe that's the way the motion reads now.

I will suspend for a few minutes. Then we'll come back to deal with this again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'd like to resume this meeting, and I'm hopeful that we can get going. I know we've been here for about two and a half hours.

Right now we are looking at the subamendment. Mr. Lake had added 2003, 2004, and 2005, and then Mr. Lessard had mentioned that the information not be reported back any later than September 2007.

On the list here, I still have Mr. Lake, Ms. Dhalla, and Ms. Yelich.

Mr. Lake, would you like to fire away?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Can you actually read the subamended motion, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Sure. We made a suggestion here because you had added “under the summer career placement program in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006”. We just added a separate bullet that said “and that the information regarding 2003, 2004, and 2005 be provided to the committee no later than September 2007”.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay. We're okay with that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You're okay with that?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Wow. We should have suspended earlier then. We could have saved some time.

All right then. I still have people on the list.

Ms. Dhalla, are we okay?

Ms. Yelich, are we okay?

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

I think we can't leave without realizing what we're asking for. We asked the deputy minister to come here today, and she did, in her letter of explanation, talk about Canada student jobs in the current year. First of all, the human resources committee is asking for that information for 2007 to be provided riding by riding.

The letter from the deputy minister and her evidence today said--if everybody was listening, and if the opposition were listening, they would realize--that the 2007 information isn't collected riding by riding. It is produced regionally for not-for-profits, and nationally--and I clearly remember her saying nationally--for private and public sectors.

So the committee keeps asking for information in a form that can't be given. So the motion is great, I guess, but it's not going to be able to be delivered, in my view.

There's another thing that I want to reiterate. They continually say we don't want to put the department out for the previous years, as Mr. Lake's motion has read. However, what I'm trying to emphasize--and the deputy minister said this--is that there are negotiations right now to complete the summer career program. The second round of funding is being negotiated now. They're in negotiations. Let them complete the program before we start asking for evidence of what this program has delivered, and if we're doing it because we want to convince the public that this new program is no good, then we have to bring it into context and have the other information at the same time, although Mr. Lake has conceded, I guess, to allow it to be postponed.

But again, would they please remember what the deputy minister had said? I really don't know what you're going to do with the list. We're going to bring it in, and then what are we going to do with it? Mr. Lake has indicated, and I never like to be political at these meetings. I really do wonder what we will do with the list, because what about the successful people? Will that pit successful applicants against unsuccessful ones? Are you going to call them all in and say, “Look, we just gave this group--as you see, I have this list here--funding”? What are you going to do with it?

If we're going to examine a list and study a list, and in the context of the program--and the opposition cannot seem to accept that this program is not about the old program, it's about going on and moving on--we have to provide lists to compare and to see that it's not a good program. Mr. Savage continually says the “good old program”. Well, it couldn't have been that good or we wouldn't have changed it. I think it's time to move on.

Merci .

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Ms. Yelich.

I have Mr. Savage, and if there are no additional comments after that, we'll have a vote on the subamendment, then the amendment, and then the main motion.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'm fine, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You're fine?

We're going to call the vote on the subamendment. Once again, the subamendment was that the information be reported back no later than September 2007. So if we're all clear on the subamendment, then I will just call the vote.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

I hate to do this after we've had a long day, but I just want to be very clear that the subamendment bringing in September doesn't change the fact that if we don't get the information asked for by June 12, that can still be reported to the House. We don't have to wait until September for the completion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That is correct. The subamendment was in a separate bullet form that suggested that the 2002, 2003, 2004 be provided no later than September, and quite clearly, that the other information has been asked for by June 12.

(Subamendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]