Human Resources Committee on May 6th, 2008

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I know he would never do that.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

That's not an apology.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I know it isn't—I'm just kidding.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I will not only accept that apology; I'll post it on my website.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

And print it on your campaign brochures.

All right, could we go to the third report? You will notice in the third report that this is what we discussed at the meeting—what we'd try to do with respect to witnesses during today's and tomorrow's meetings. There have been some changes, but if you'll just bear with me, I'll take you through it.

The CFIB, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, was not able to make it here. Neither was the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, which is what Mr. Hanson kept referring to. They were not able to make it to this meeting.

The Cape Breton Island Building and Construction Trades Council, a group that was to appear here on Thursday, was actually here today. Then we also had the Canadian Construction Association here today.

Are all the rest confirmed for Thursday?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Jacques Maziade]

All except FTQ.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll get to the FTQ in a second.

We have the Canadian Labour Congress. We have the Mouvement Autonome et Solidaire des Sans-Emploi. That is confirmed. Do we still have the Building and Construction Trades Department?

[The Clerk]

Yes, we have the national department.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

This is what we agreed to at the subcommittee meeting. After the meeting, I know there was misunderstanding regarding Mr. Lessard and what he would like to see. Mr. Lessard indicated that the FTQ, although a labour group, would represent four unions in Quebec. They would like the unions to be present, although there will be only one presentation.

I needed to bring that back to everybody here. Mr. Martin and Mr. Lessard sent a letter to me on Friday.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Are we in camera right now?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

It's whatever you guys want. The subcommittee meeting will be in camera. It's up to you guys. I think we're okay.

Mr. Lessard suggested that all four labour unions from Quebec should be present, but that only the FTQ or one of the organizations would make the presentation. There was a letter back and forth. I don't have an issue with that as long as it's all right with the rest of the committee.

So you'd have the Labour Congress, the other two organizations, the FTQ, and the three other labour unions from Quebec. But there would be only one presentation. They would all be there if we wanted to address questions. They'd be at the table.

So that is the proposal. I don't believe there should be a concern. I think this was what prompted the letter from Mr. Martin and Mr. Lessard late on Friday. I just wanted to see who was going to be here today, to see if this would work out. I believe we can facilitate this—it shouldn't be an issue.

I've just been reminded that this is what the FTQ has agreed to as well. They would come and represent the four unions as they speak, but they would let the people at the table address the issues if direct questions were asked.

So we're not talking about four separate presentations; we're talking about one. But we're talking about bringing them to the table to answer questions if they're asked directly.

I have a couple of hands here: Mr. Lessard, Mr. Martin, Mr. Lake, and Ms. Yelich.

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I think we have a mutual misunderstanding here, or at least I hope so. You speak very quickly. Sometimes the interpretation is still ongoing after you are finished. You give the impression that everyone has understood, but that's not always the case for me. I'm not mad at you, but these decisions seem to have been taken quickly.

Unions sometimes have common positions which they present as one. They usually don't use a spokesperson, but they have done so on occasion in the past. You were wondering whether it was possible from a logistics point of view to hear from them all. There are four groups. This morning, we had seven witnesses. They each had a turn to speak and no complications arose. It would be the same thing. I think it would be wrong to invite the four unions, but to only allow one of them to speak. It's not the right thing to do. We must proceed the way we did this morning, that is, give each of these groups between 7 and 10 minutes to make a presentation and answer questions.

Unless I'm mistaken, on Thursday we are supposed to hear from the Canada Labour Congress, the FTQ, the CSN, the CEQ and the CSD. Have any of these groups confirmed they will be here? I believe that the people from Cap Breton were here this morning. So they will not be with us on Thursday. That's a total of five groups. As for the groups representing the unemployed, we face the same issue. We cannot only invite MASSE. Its position is not the same as that of the Conseil national des chômeurs. In my opinion, we have to invite the four unions and the two groups representing the unemployed to get the full spectrum of their opinions. We should also organize our meeting as we did this morning, that is, to have it last two hours. We could hear from them together or separately, beginning with the groups representing the unemployed and ending with the unions. If we did it that way, they would not all get the same period of time, but they are all defending the same cause. Perhaps they could all appear at the same time during a two and a half-hour meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

The challenge we have--and that's why we're talking about it in front of the group now--is that we had originally given this three meetings and we were trying to fit in witnesses. When we consolidated the list of witnesses, there was a recommendation of three witnesses from each party. So now you're suggesting something different from what you suggested in your letter to me on Friday, which was that one present and the others be there for questions.

I'm just throwing out to the committee that we can have more meetings on this if we want to, but once again, we are trying to determine what it is we want to do. We've certainly extended that and have given enough time for five groups to present. If we have six groups presenting.... Once again, I throw this out to you guys. There'll be more than six, because there'll be seven groups presenting. If that's what the committee wants, we'll cut down the presentations to five minutes each, which won't change that. We'll still go the two and a half hours, which gives everyone a chance to be able to make their presentation. If that's something you would like to look at, I'm throwing it out to you guys.

On the list right now are Mr. Lake, Mr. Martin, Ms. Yelich, and Mr. Savage. Why don't we start with Mr. Lake?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

First off, I'd like a clarification. Are CFIB and the Canadian Council of Chief Executives coming on Thursday now?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

No, they're not able to make it at all this week.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

So we won't hear from either of those organizations?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's correct.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay, so on this list, there might be more than the four bullet points here if we spread one of those out to have three more organizations, I guess.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

This is what I'm trying to clarify. Mr. Lessard is suggesting three additional unions and one other employee group. So we have a total of the Labour Congress plus four, which would be five. We would have two from the group, which would be...eight if that were the case.

Did I understand that correctly, Mr. Lessard? There would be potentially eight groups?

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Would the other group be the Cape Breton Island Building & Construction Trades Council?

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

No, they were here today already.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

It would be the CLC, the FTQ, the CSN, the CSQ, the CSD, the Mouvement Action Chômage and the Conseil national des chômeurs et chômeuses.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

There are seven groups.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

So the situation would be identical to the one this morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We have the Building and Construction Trades Department--they are the national organizations--so it will be eight.