Human Resources Committee on March 12th, 2009

[Deb Matthews]

It's all government. It is all of government working together.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

And we've heard that from other areas and jurisdictions that are having results, whether it's within Canada or external to Canada, that they have had this holistic approach to poverty, which is the way it has to be.

I also appreciate that you have given us...in this book here Breaking the Cycle, you identify the role of the federal government, what you'd like to see done, and I certainly agree with most of those.

You mentioned WITB and the improvements in WITB in the budget. I think that's true, and I think WITB is a very important part of the social infrastructure as we go forward on dealing with poverty.

Some provinces have adjusted their own policies with the federal WITB program: I think Nunavut, B.C., and Quebec. Have you guys looked at doing that? Are you in the process of things like minimum wage, like welfare programs being adjusted to suit the national working income tax benefit?

[Deb Matthews]

I have to say I haven't heard anything about that, which probably suggests we aren't, but I would be interested in learning more about it if you think it's something that would improve the well-being of people in our province.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I think it is. In analyzing the budget, Caledon Institute, who is a partner--and I think they're a very good partner to have on these issues--said about the WITB program that even with the proposed improvements, WITB still does not reach all working poor Canadians. Take the case of a worker living in Toronto whose earnings equal the after-tax, low-income cut-off of $18,670. That $18,670 is $2,000 above the $16,667 level where eligibility for WITB ends. Now anybody watching this committee is wondering what all those numbers are about, but in simple terms, the maximum benefit of $925 from the working income tax benefit of 2009 can only go to somebody who makes $10,500 or less.

I think the key is...you've obviously indicated that minimum wage is part of your plan in Ontario, and if I heard you correctly, you're suggesting that as a result of the work you're doing, a single earner, a single woman working full time--

[Deb Matthews]

Or man.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'm thinking of a single woman, but it could be a man, with two children, under the plan would go from an income of $19,000 to over $30,000?

[Deb Matthews]

That's correct.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Could you just explain the components of that for me, because that's very impressive?

[Deb Matthews]

Yes, I can. If you turn to page 16 and 17, it breaks down the components. The minimum wage increases are in black, the bottom bar. The Ontario child benefit is the top white bar. Other credits and transfers include federal--so it's all itemized there.

I just want to point out that this chart and the one on the other side of the page shows the increase in income, not the total income.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's what was throwing me off.

[Deb Matthews]

It's been a bit confusing, yes. This is the increase in income that they will have.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Minister.

We're going to move to Mr. Lobb now. Sir, you have five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister, for making the trip here today.

On page 16, you referenced asset building in there, and that's a topic that we've heard of from several of our guests. I wondered if you could elaborate a little bit on your strategy there with asset building and how you envision that taking place.

[Deb Matthews]

This is something that we have not yet launched. We are still working on developing exactly what it would entail, but what we do know is that assets, having that cushion, really makes a difference.

Of course, what we're seeing now in the province of Ontario and everywhere else, I assume, is that people who have lost their jobs have exhausted EI. May I just take this opportunity to remind you that this would happen sooner in Ontario than anywhere else. They have to actually deplete their assets before they're eligible for social assistance. So there is no safety net between EI and OW, Ontario Works.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Do you have a proposed timeline? Will it be within this fiscal year that you may have a strategy, or is this going to be over a couple of years--

[Deb Matthews]

Is that for the asset-building program?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Yes.

[Deb Matthews]

I would say it's something we're actively working on.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay, good.

Another one I noticed in there was dental care. It's going to go up to 18-year-olds in the future.

[Deb Matthews]

Yes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

It has to do with low income. Is the cut-off on the low income the $27,000 you reference in your document, or where is the cut-off line for the low income?

[Deb Matthews]

For the low-income dental?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Yes.

[Deb Matthews]

I have to tell you that I don't know the answer to that. What I do know is that we have a program called CINOT, children in need of treatment, that's available for low-income families. I don't know the cut-off for it yet. I won't venture a guess.

It used to go to age 14. It's now extended to 18, but we're committed to increased dental care for low-income families.