Human Resources Committee on March 12th, 2009

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

What about family structure? Sometimes if there are problems in a family, mental health or addiction or what have you, the money may not be spent--

[Deb Matthews]

These are the eight indicators that we're starting with. But we know that as we go forward this may change.

We were quite taken by the New Zealand wheel. I don't know if you've had a chance to look at that, but there are a number of indicators that can tell you how you're doing on a number of different factors, all of which are important.

I think it's a mistake to pick one and say that's the only one we're watching. I think you need to understand the range of indicators.

So those are the eight. As I say, they aren't carved in stone. We will continue to develop indicators. And if this legislation that's before the House now passes, every government from now on will be mandated to report annually on indicators and set a target.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Minister, we want to thank you for taking the time out of what I know must be a very busy schedule to be here today to share with us what's going on in Ontario.

We have some other committee business we need to deal with.

Again, thank you for taking the time, and we wish you all the best.

[Deb Matthews]

Thank you very much. I've enjoyed every moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I have a couple of things that I want to throw out there as we consider the schedule.

We will have a working schedule prepared for when we get back from the break so we can look at what we're going to do.

I'm proposing right now that we look at travel dates. I just want you to mark this down. We don't need to have any discussion. I want you to look at it and consider what we have to decide collectively when we come back, just so we can prepare accordingly.

I'm suggesting that we travel for the first three days of the last week in April and that we possibly fly out west. This would be half the committee. We would fly out on the 26th, spend a day in Vancouver, a day in Calgary, and a day in Winnipeg, and then be done on the 29th for that leg of travel. These are suggestions based on witnesses we have. I know there was a lot that people wanted to do, but I'm going to throw this out for discussion after the break week.

The next thought was to perhaps travel out east, leave after caucus on May 6 and travel to Montreal, and then finish in Halifax on May 8.

The last suggestion for travel, if we are going to break this up into three parcels, is to leave again after caucus on May 27 and spend two days in Toronto, May 28 and 29.

I know people have requested other towns and places. We can travel according to what you think. I just want to throw this out there for you to look at your schedules and try to figure out how we're going to fit it all in. We might decide to add more days or to do different things.

That is what we're going to consider when we come back from the break. We're going to try to fit in different witnesses. We can have some discussion on whether we need to do more or do less, but we'll have to come up with consensus from the group as to what we plan on doing.

I know last time we spent two weeks. We went out one week and came back the following week, and it was a lot of work. So the suggestion was that we break it up a little bit. We're suggesting these as possible dates, as far as that goes.

Mr. Martin wanted us to participate during the break week in May. We need to have some discussion about that when we come back, because my question is, do you people want to give up your break week to travel? We have not scheduled anything yet, because it has to be approved by you. The conference takes place in Calgary during the break week in May.

I just throw these dates out to you to think about during the break week. We're going to have to come back and approve a schedule so that people can start doing these things. If anyone wants to change these things, we're going to need to decide that collectively and determine what we need to do.

The break week starts May 18, and Mr. Martin has suggested that we travel out there that week for the conference. We're just talking about those dates right now, as far as that goes.

I have to remind people that we talked about possibly having meetings on May 18. However, May 18 is a holiday Monday, so I think that would be a challenge for us. We may need to do something different.

I am going to take a couple of names. I don't want to spend a lot of time debating the schedule. I want you to think about it and come back after the break, and we'll look at what we're going to do and come to some consensus. But I certainly will take any points that need to be made at this point in time.

Tony, and then Mike.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

First of all, I would really appreciate something in writing with those dates on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

When we come back, a calendar is going to be laid out that we will need to approve. I just want to throw those dates out there for you to think about.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I want to think about it over the week. It would be nice if I had it in writing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Sure. We'll send it out.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

We all have busy schedules and we'd like to look at that.

Secondly, you had indicated that you were going to pull together a subcommittee meeting to look at this. You've obviously made up your own mind about suggested dates. We could have done it in collaboration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I absolutely haven't made up my own mind. I'm throwing dates out for some suggestions. There are a lot of people who want to hear witnesses and we could be here through the whole summer.

As a committee, you're going to have to decide who we're going to hear and who we're not going to hear. By all means, that's why this is not just coming out of the meeting. We looked at trying to determine break weeks and request what you guys wanted.

If we think we need to go back to a subcommittee meeting, Tony, I'd be more than happy to do that. I just want you guys to start thinking about this, because the clerks, in all fairness to them, need to have some time to prepare the witnesses.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Okay, but the issue isn't going back to a subcommittee; we haven't had one yet. Subcommittees have worked well in the past to narrow it down and have more fulsome discussion on these kinds of things.

My second point is, did you circulate to everybody the letter that came from CCSD? You did. Okay, good. It was to indicate the different options in terms of that conference.

Again, not to belabour the point, that will be a gathering of hundreds of people from across the country who have been studying, working in, and considering poverty, from business to labour, to academic, to government, at all levels, and it would be a shame for us to miss it and not participate in some way and take advantage of that gathering and to include that in whatever final report we put together.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'll also mention that the dates we send out to everybody include the conference dates.

Michael, I don't know what you're going to talk about, but we're also mentioning the other thing as well.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Just a quick point on the schedule.

In looking at being out in western Canada the last week in April, as the Liberal Party policy convention is the weekend starting April 30, would it possible to arrange the meeting so that we end in B.C.?

I'll leave that for your consideration. If it's possible, that would make it easier than coming back to Ottawa and then going back out.

You're all welcome at the convention as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Observer status.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Can I bring my second issue up?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Most definitely, you can bring it up.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

The other thing I wanted to mention, colleagues, and I mentioned this to a couple of people, is that last year I spent a day in a wheelchair for the Canadian Paraplegic Association. It brings attention to the issues of persons with disabilities. This year, on May 7, the CPA and some other organizations are asking MPs if they're interested in spending a day in a wheelchair. A number of our people are looking at doing it, and for anybody on this committee who is interested in doing that, we could arrange that as well. You start at 8:30. Steven Fletcher is very much involved in this, and they're looking at a number of activities. If you're interested, you can let my office know and we can put you in touch with the Canadian Paraplegic Association.

The other thing is that since we are doing a study on poverty, and persons with disabilities are key components of any poverty study, I'm wondering if it's possible, depending on where we are, that we might arrange on that day to hear from witnesses and groups or people who actually have disabilities and are suffering from poverty. We don't have to decide this today. There will be some attention brought to the issue on the Hill on that day. It would be useful if we could arrange that. I leave that for your consideration over the break week. Perhaps we can discuss it when we get back.

If anybody is interested in spending that day in a wheelchair, it's a little bit of an insight into what it's like to be in a wheelchair. I can tell you from the experience last year that you learn a lot. It's not as easy as people might think. The thing is that we get out of the wheelchair at the end of the day. Lots of other people don't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Just a reminder, it's 8:30 until when?

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

They want it done from beginning of day until end of day. There are some motorized wheelchairs. There will be senators who are going to do this. You have a choice, but I think they would prefer people to do the non-propelled wheelchair. It gives you more of a sense of....

I'll tell you, Parliament Hill, compared to the rest of the country, is well equipped for people with disabilities, but you will still find there are enormous challenges. Certain of the green buses accommodate wheelchairs. The idea is that when you get in the wheelchair you don't get out. You use the wheelchair-accessible facilities for the bathroom and everything else on the Hill. Some of the green buses will accommodate; I think every third one actually accommodates a wheelchair.

We'll learn more about it, but it's well worth the experience, and I think it would be useful for this committee, part of whose mandate is the responsibility for persons with disabilities, to take the leadership role in highlighting this issue on May 7.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thanks.

Mike, you can send all that information to Christine so she can circulate it. She'll include that with the dates.

Here we are talking about dates. If, as a committee, we think we should do this, that means rescheduling weeks. As I said, I throw these out there as ideas. Nothing is etched in stone. Nothing has been done, but we have to give the direction to the clerks.

I bring this up because this facilitates the discussion when we come back.

Tony, maybe we can meet as a subcommittee, if we want to suggest different dates. We can look at that when we get back on Tuesday, when we talk about some of the suggestions. Maybe we'll have the subcommittee look at that.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

On another point, I was under the impression we were going to be meeting most often over in the Centre Block and that room is televised. I thought our hearings would be televised, but I'm told we have to request that.

I'm moving a motion to request that, for any meetings we have in a room that has the facility to televise, we actually televise those hearings.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We can look at that, but as you know, Tony, we go meeting by meeting to determine whether we can actually get those rooms. We will put a request in for them. I think that shouldn't be a problem.

I have a couple more on the list.

I have Mr. Lessard, and then I was hoping we could break. I have a meeting at one o'clock.

Mr. Lessard, you have the floor.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I shall be brief. I appreciate Mr. Savage's initiative. I would like to participate but not to learn what might gained by such an experience since it so happens that I have had to spend 18 months in a nonmotorized wheelchair in the past. I will do so as an act of solidarity. I will be there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Thank you once again.

With that, we'll adjourn.

Sorry. Mr. Cannan?