Evidence of meeting #28 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Would some of them have dependent children at that age?
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
It's possible. We can't confirm that. Our database doesn't collect that information. We could only do that by having a file-by-file manual review.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
You've given us some information here about the Correctional Service and how much prisoners can actually make. I'm not a member of the justice committee and this is kind of new information to me. What is the most amount of money that a prisoner can take when they leave after the age of 60, after having saved it in jail?
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
Minimally we strive for them to have $80 when they go out the door. That figure was determined many years ago and is not necessarily consistent with the cost of anything today. We are reviewing our entire inmate stipend regime to see whether that figure is appropriate.
On your specific question, it really is dependent upon what the offenders are engaged in, other than the inmate remuneration pieces I talked about. If they have outside funds coming from a private or government pension, or moneys that they've saved through selling hobby crafts, obviously the number would be higher than $80. So it varies, but we strive to ensure that they have a minimum of $80 when they leave custody.
Conservative
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you for being here today. It will help us clarify a number of questions.
Since you are in charge of the release of offenders, could you tell me how long an offender can live in society with $80?
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
No. We're re-examining our entire inmate stipend regime. That number has been in place for many years. We all know that, for example, it would be hard to secure a hotel room for one night for that amount of money. So we are currently looking at restructuring our entire inmate remuneration regime.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
In your earlier presentation, you said that, among the offenders concerned—currently there are 13,750—850, or 6%, are aged 60 years and over. How many are there over 65 years of age?
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
There are about 400, as a matter of fact.
Last week, we received several witnesses in this committee, among them was Ms. Ruth Gagnon, member of the board of directors of the Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec inc. Perhaps you know her or perhaps you know about her testimony. It was the first time that someone put us face-to-face with section 78 of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act. You know this section.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
She maintained that it would have been enough to amend this section whereby you can take 25% of the offender's income. Do you agree with this?
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
Section 78 allows us to actually take up to 30% of the moneys in relation to the prescribed sources of income in the regulations. Section 104 allows us to take up to 30% for room and board. That's meant to offset the costs of food, accommodation, and work clothing. I think the discussions around section 78 and this bill are two different things.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
I think that the section is very clear with regard to the use that can be made of the money that is collected. We studied this section carefully and, unless I am mistaken, you have also studied it carefully. It seems to us that a very small amendment would have been enough to make sure that you have the power to enforce this provision and to get the same result that we want to obtain through Bill C-31. Do you share my opinion?
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
Right now, based on the five prescribed sources of income in the regulations, we will apply that, unless the institutional head or the warden makes a determination for an exception.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
This is not the question that I am concerned with. I understand that you want to enforce the legislation.
According to our reading of it, section 78 of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, if it was amended, could give us exactly the same result as Bill C-31 and it would allow you to collect the entire sum.
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
My understanding is that the legislation is to stop the payment of these benefits to incarcerated offenders. The room and board provisions don't address that specific issue.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
I understand very well, Mr. Head, and I think that you understand my question very well. We would simply amend the legislation to let you collect the entire payment.
Besides, we agree with the principle of this legislation. We are not contesting it, but the government is always talking about balance in legislation, and I think that you clearly intend to make sure that the offender can also have a little bit of money. You said that you were working on that.
What would be the most appropriate measure, in a bill, to allow an offender who is returning to society to have a sum of money to help him do that? Does he have to manage that money by himself, or must there be a follow-up, some kind of tutoring from you, once he has returned to society?
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
There are several pieces to that question.
If an offender follows through with their correctional plan and is involved in the interventions that are laid out in it, including programming and skills development, they will earn a maximum of $69 every two weeks. If they manage that money properly, depending on the length of the sentence, it would afford them a decent amount of money at the time of their release. It's obviously not going to take the place of any other kinds of incomes, such as if they had full-time jobs in the community. But it really is dependent upon the offender's involvement and engagement in their correctional plan.
We know, for example, that about 40% of offenders who are 65 years and older are fully engaged in their correctional plans and earning the maximum $69 every two weeks. Whether they have other sources of income—money donated to them by family members, money from private pensions, or money from selling hobby crafts—those will depend on any other life situation that exists for each of those individuals.
When they are under our supervision in the community, we work very closely with the offenders in their engagement in work and earning of money.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Head and Mr. McCowan, for being here.
I want to go back to the stats. Let me just be clear that the 800 figure you gave us was for those 60 and older.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Are all of those in a penitentiary, as opposed to being in a halfway house or out on parole?
October 26th, 2010 / 9:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada
That's right. Those 850 people are in federal penitentiaries.
