Evidence of meeting #28 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Don Head  Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

October 26th, 2010 / 8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner (Portage—Lisgar, CPC)) Conservative Candice Bergen

Good morning, everyone. I would like to bring to order meeting number 28 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today we are continuing our study of Bill C-31, an act to amend the Old Age Security Act.

We're very pleased today to have witnesses from Correctional Service Canada. Welcome, Mr. Don Head and Mr. Ian McCowan.

I understand that one of our witnesses will be making a presentation, and then they'll be answering our questions. What we'll do is begin with the presentation.

Is it Mr. McCowan or Mr. Head who will be presenting?

Mr. Head will be giving the presentation. You have approximately ten minutes, sir, to make your presentation. At this time, we will turn the floor over to you and ask for your presentation. Thank you.

8:50 a.m.

Don Head Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, and thank you, Madam Chair and committee members, for the opportunity to discuss how the proposed bill would affect CSC operations, that being Bill C-31.

First I'd like to address how many federal offenders may be impacted by this bill and then I will provide you with some information about how we manage offenders' moneys while they are incarcerated. The Correctional Service of Canada is currently housing about 13,700 offenders in our institutions across the country. Of these, approximately 850, or 6%, are 60 years of age or older. And approximately 1,160, or 8%, of the 8,600 offenders supervised in the community are 60 years of age or older.

However, we are unaware of how many are actually receiving benefit payments, as some offenders who are receiving the payments may have the funds deposited to a bank or a credit union in the community rather than having it sent to them at an institution.

By way of background, I would like to describe how offenders' money is handled while they are incarcerated. Institutions manage two forms of accounts for offenders, a current account and a savings account. Offenders can receive a maximum of $6.90 per day for participation in work, training, or intervention programming. Offenders who refuse to participate in all programs and assignments receive one dollar per day. These funds may be subject to a number of deductions at source, including indebtedness to the crown, room and board, and contributions to the inmate welfare fund. Offenders may receive income from other sources, such as the sale of hobby crafts or government pensions such as old age security benefits, and they would until the coming into force of this bill.

Offenders are allowed to keep in their current account no more than 90% of any income received after deductions, to a maximum of $69 for a two-week pay period. This can be used for items such as telephone calls, canteen purchases, and the purchase of certain approved personal property items. Anything above the $69 per two-week period is placed in the inmate's savings account, which is only accessible for approved purposes and in support of his or her correctional plan.

Offenders are allowed to transfer funds from their savings account to their current account no more than four times per year and the total annual transfer may not exceed $500. Furthermore, they are required to maintain a minimum balance of $80 in their savings account. This, in part, is intended to ensure funds are available to them upon their release.

When an offender is released on day parole, full parole, or statutory release, all funds in the current and savings accounts are made available to him or her. As such, any offender who may currently be in receipt of their old age security benefits would not normally be able to access any funds in excess of $69 per two-week pay period while incarcerated. The exception to this is the transfers I mentioned earlier. So an offender's discretionary funds in his or her current account can be supplemented by a maximum of $500 per year.

These mechanisms are in place to ensure that offenders can properly budget for their release, to control the flow of money inside institutions, to ensure the safety and security of staff and offenders, and to support inmate welfare funds that assist with both the welfare of offenders and contribute to outside charitable contributions.

I'd like to come back quickly to the issue of room and board. In the case of an offender receiving a pension from a private or government source, commissioner's directive number 860 on inmate's money allows, at the discretion of the institutional head or warden, the deduction of up to 25% of an inmate's total income for the cost of room and board. This is to a maximum of $25 per week, which does not represent full cost recovery.

As my final point, I would like to address the mechanics of how Correctional Service Canada would help implement the withholding of old age security benefits. We have developed a draft information-sharing agreement with Human Resources and Skills Development Canada that would permit the disclosure by CSC of information on federal offenders age 60 years or older. This would include information on those who are incarcerated in order to facilitate the suspension of payments, as well as information on those who are recently released by virtue of parole or statutory release, so that payments can be reinstated.

This information would be provided to officials at HRSDC on a monthly basis, and again annually, to ensure data reliability. Correctional Service Canada will absorb all costs related to the enactment of proposed Bill C-31 and we are confident that we can put these mechanisms in place quickly.

Madam Chair, in closing, I wish to thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee. I welcome any questions you may have today.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you very much.

We will begin our first round of questions. You will have seven minutes each, including the question and answer.

Mr. Savage, do you want to begin, or Madam Folco?

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC

The questions I wanted to ask have already been answered.

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Mr. Savage.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for appearing today.

As you probably know, all the parties have indicated support for this bill thus far. We want to find out if there are any hidden issues that might be problematic. I appreciate your coming before us, and your point of view on this is important.

Were you involved in any way in the drafting of the legislation?

8:55 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

No. We provided advice to HRSDC staff on impacts, number of offenders, and processes that could be used for information sharing.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Before the bill was finalized you were involved in explaining how this might impact Correctional Service Canada.

8:55 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Are you satisfied that this bill is workable?

8:55 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

As far as the expectations on Correctional Service Canada, it's workable. In terms of sharing the information with HRSDC, we can make this work. We have similar types of information-sharing agreements with other government departments for other reasons. We can make this one work just like we make the others work.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Did you flag any specific concerns about this that would require extra effort on your behalf as part of the drafting of the bill, the way it's going to be carried out?

8:55 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

We looked at it in detail, particularly what's required to collect the information that's needed to share with our counterpart agency, and nothing of significance arose in that assessment.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Will there be any cost to Correctional Service Canada to implement this bill?

8:55 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

There will be nothing that we can't absorb. It's basically getting the information-sharing agreement in place, which really has no cost; setting up the query run on our database; and then producing the report. So the costs are nil, for all intents and purposes.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

That's good. I gather from the comments that Correctional Service will assist in ensuring that payments are cut off when people are incarcerated, and will be involved in the reinstatement of payments after an offender leaves the system.

8:55 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

We will provide the information to HRSDC. The people who make those decisions over there will be informed about individuals who come into the system and are within those various age parameters, and they will initiate all action. There will be no action on our part to stop or collect payments.

On the way we read the bill, an individual who comes in will get their payment for the first month, but then it will be stopped for subsequent months. When an offender is released--the way the legislation is written and the way we interpret it--they must notify the minister or the minister's designate that they're out in the community so that benefits are reinstated. Other than us providing the data to HRSDC, there are no other actions required on our part.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

We heard some testimony earlier--I think it was from the department--about employment insurance. Are there people incarcerated in Canadian prisons who are receiving employment insurance?

9 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

I couldn't give you an answer to that. It may be possible, but similar to the discussions around old age benefits, if an offender receives any kind of compensation like that and the moneys are deposited in a community bank account, we would never know about it unless the offender disclosed it to us.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

If somebody is on EI and they're sent to prison, is there anything you know of now that stops those payments from flowing to prisoners?

9 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

I'd have to go back and check the rules around that, but nothing comes to top of mind.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Do you have information on the average length of time that prisoners affected by this bill would spend in prison?

9 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

Yes. About 46% of the individuals who are age 65 and older are serving sentences for either murder one or murder two, so those are life sentences that come with varying parole eligibility dates. About 32% are serving time for sex offences. The majority of those seem to be offences in the range of four to five years. But the vast majority of offenders who are over 65 are serving life sentences of ten years or more.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Do you have any records—I'm not sure who keeps them—on whether there are wives or dependants of the inmates, outside of prison, who would be affected by this bill?

9 a.m.

Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada

Don Head

We don't have data on dependants per se, but we know that about a quarter of the offenders I was mentioning are married or in some kind of common-law relationship.