Human Resources Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[The Chair (Ms. Candice Hoeppner (Portage—Lisgar, CPC)), Conservative, Candice Bergen]

We're going to call our meeting to order, meeting number 45 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development, and the Status of Persons With Disabilities, further to our study on federal support measures for adoptive parents.

Today is our last hour session hearing from witnesses on the adoption study. We're very pleased to have with us four young adults--you're all over the age of 18, I understand--who are here to share with us their experiences and their stories. I want to thank you all for being here. We look forward to hearing from you.

Each of you will have about five minutes to present, and then there might be some questions from the committee members. So you have about five minutes, but I'm going to give the witnesses some leeway because probably we want to hear their stories.

We'll begin with Miranda Eggertson.

Yes.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

On a point of order, as we have these bios here, I wonder...Lisa Davis, who apparently was not able to make it--

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Lisa's right here.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

I'm sorry, which was the one...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Judy.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Okay. Then we probably want to note that in particular, insofar as she's not able to explain her situation, and I think we'll all want to take note of Judy's bio as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

For sure. Thank you, Mr. Vellacott.

All right. We'll begin with Miranda, and then we'll go on to Alisha Bowie, Lisa Davis, and Jon Daly.

We'll begin with you, Miranda.

[Miranda Eggertson, As an Individual]

Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to talk to you.

My name is Miranda Eggertson. I am a 20-year-old young mom and student at the Youville Centre here in Ottawa. I have two daughters, Allysia, who is 16 months, and Alexis, who is four months. I was adopted when I was eight. I was in foster care in Kenora, Ontario, off and on from the time I was 15 months old, until I was four. I was back and forth to my birth parents from four until eight; I was permanently in foster care. I had about ten moves from one home to another until I was adopted.

When I was in foster care, I felt like I was alone. I felt like people didn't want me. I never knew how long I would be staying anywhere. I remember watching other kids with their parents. I missed my parents and wondered why I couldn't live with them and why I couldn't have that kind of bond that other kids seemed to have with their families. I felt like I couldn't trust my foster family. I didn't want to get close because I was scared I was going to get moved again.

A lot of things happened to me in foster care that shouldn't happen to any kid. When my social worker told me she found a forever mom for me, I was happy, but I was also scared because I was leaving my birth mom behind, and my other siblings. My new mom was a single journalist from Ottawa. When I met her, I asked her why she wanted to adopt me and not a baby. She told me she liked babies, but she'd seen my picture on the Canada's Waiting Children list and she wanted to adopt me. I asked her why she wanted to adopt me since I had brown skin. I was very confused about that. I had to make sure she wanted me and she wasn't crazy.

I was happy about being adopted, but at the same time I was really confused. Growing up in Ottawa, it was kind of hard because most other kids didn't understand adoption. I got teased a lot because I had a white single mom, and I had a lot of anger about having to leave my birth family, because I remembered them. I had a lot of flashbacks when I was younger. I was angry about things that happened to me when I was younger, before I got adopted.

When I was 16, I took off on my own for a bit to figure things out. I went back to my reserve and I met my birth mom, my half brothers, my aunts and uncles and cousins and extended family. I did a lot of self-destructive things, but I also knew that I could always call my mom for help. That's why I think older kids should get adopted instead of aging out of the foster home care system without a family.

Everybody always needs someone who will stand behind them. When I spent some time on the street, I met a lot of kids who were homeless who had been in foster care. They didn't have anybody they could call if anything went wrong or if anything bothered them, except their drug dealers.

My life now is more secure. I have a loving family, loving support system, an adoptive family, my partner, my biological family. I am going to a great school that helps me. I have my own place, and I hope to go to college next year. If I hadn't been adopted, I probably wouldn't have aged out of the system. I probably still would be into drugs and wouldn't have a plan for my future. I probably wouldn't have my daughters. I might have ended up like my two half sisters. My older sister died working the streets of Thunder Bay, and my next sister hung herself when she heard about my older sister's death.

Some people think aboriginal kids shouldn't get adopted by white families, but I think a good family is what matters, no matter what colour, size, or sexual orientation they are. Everyone deserves a permanent family, a go-to person who will always be there.

I hope this committee can help support adoption so that more kids like me can get adopted.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much, Miranda.

We'll go onto Alisha, please.

[Alisha Bowie, As an Individual]

Hi. My name is Alisha. Currently, I go to Carleton University. I'm in my third year, studying human rights. I came into care at the age of 10, with my six other siblings. I'm the oldest. Now there are nine of us, actually, but that's a different story.

Basically, I moved into a foster home and I lived with them for eight years, until I was 18. Essentially, it was the same foster home, but I didn't feel a part of that home. Some of my siblings were adopted. There's just one other who wasn't. Essentially, I saw them in a different way. They had this loving family they could turn to, and I didn't have that. I didn't really feel like I belonged in that foster home. I also had a foster sister who was the same age as me, and I felt she was treated differently from me.

I'm currently aging out of the foster system. I turn 21 in August. Right now, I live on my own, and it's really difficult not having someone you can turn to. I don't know who to call when I'm in crisis or something. I turn to my worker, but I won't have her for very long. It's also difficult because I'm separated from my siblings.

As I said, they were adopted, and I'm not able to see them as often. And that's their family; I'm just someone who was their biological sister. It's kind of different. I see them having all these opportunities, and I never got that. They have someone to go home to on holidays.

When I do go back to my old foster home, it's almost like I'm a guest in that home, and I don't know where I belong. There are other foster kids who are now living in my room. It's just difficult. I just don't know where I belong. That's my story.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thanks very much, Alisha.

Lisa.

[Lisa Davis, As an Individual]

Everyone suffers, at some point in their lives, loss, disappointment, and heartbreak. For youth in care, it's not a matter of when they will suffer this, it's a guarantee that they will know loss, disappointment, and heartbreak more than anything else.

Permanency equals a sense of belonging. When it comes to permanency for youth in care, there's one simple fact: it's a basic human need that everyone should be entitled to. We should all know where we go at Christmas. We should all know where we go on our university breaks.

I was a foster child from the age of three. I did age out of the system. I'm now 32 years old, and I'm finally in university, of my own choice, not because of any support I ever had. When I was 20 years old, it was my last-shot opportunity to take advantage of any educational opportunities while still getting some support from the Children's Aid Society. I became a cosmetician, which left me in a low-end job with not very much security. Having a young family, that was very much a struggle, but I continued to volunteer and work very hard and build myself up so I could go to university. But I do it all on my own. So when it's a matter of trying to make a phone call to figure out what I should be doing with my very ill-tempered three-year-old, it's hard to know who to turn to. It's hard to know that sense of belonging.

I did have a permanent foster home, or at least what I thought was permanent. I was promised permanency and I was supposed to be adopted as a teenager. My foster dad died when I was 19. He never adopted me because he was in the midst of retirement and there wasn't enough support for him to adopt me. So when I was 19 and had a small child, all of a sudden I was left absolutely alone. The family that I thought I had, for many years, turned their back. I was just the foster child. There was no legal binding support for me. I even carried the name of my foster family, so that made it even harder when they turned their backs. This whole culture I'd grown up with and learned to enjoy was something that I no longer had. I had to make my own.

Nobody should ever have to not have that sense of belonging.

We come into the system and it's not our choice. We don't choose to be abused. We don't choose to be hit. We don't choose to be sexually assaulted. When there comes an opportunity to offer these children, like me and Alisha and Jon and Miranda, some permanency and stability in our lives, when nothing has ever been stable, it's an opportunity that means we are able to give back, instead of continuing to be in a system that will have to support us for many years.

There are many youth in care who are not as lucky as we are to be in university or to have opportunities to have somebody to call. Many of these kids end up on the streets. Many of them end up filling our jails. The percentage is absolutely humongous. The burden on the system is absolutely huge when you consider permanency would mean there'd be an attachment and a bond with somebody who has agreed to support you. I imagine many sitting at the table here today have had that opportunity to call their parents when they needed them, when they were struggling with something. Those are opportunities that we don't have, and it's something we would really like to have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

Jon, we'll go to you now. Thank you.

[Jon Daly, As an Individual]

My name is Jonathan Daly. I've been in and out of care pretty much my whole life. I first entered care when I was three years old, with my two younger sisters. After being bounced around to two or three homes, I went back to live with mom when I was five. When I was nine years old, a tragic car accident took my two sisters, my mother, and stepfather away from me. From that point on, I entered foster care permanently. Between the ages of 9 and 11, I went between three foster homes. I got to see a lot; I got to experience a lot, a lot of different religions, different cultures, and different parental methods. It was very difficult for me because in two years, going to three homes, that's an average of about eight months per home. It's very difficult to get used to how the kids are raised, how I'm supposed to act, the religions. So it took its toll on me. I had quite a difficult childhood.

When I was 11 years old I came into my permanent foster home, with André Fontaine. I've been living there ever since. I'm 21 years old now. It's been about 10 years this March. Five years after I moved in with him, I got adopted. Before I got adopted, and even after I got adopted, it wasn't easy. I was a teenager, so I had my share of troubles, but knowing I had this support system, it really helped me get through all of it. One of the biggest fears I ever had growing up, that no kid should ever have, is the fear of having to leave a family. It's really one of the worst things you can imagine. You make friends, they really become your family, your everything, and to have to leave that behind....

So being adopted for me was one of the biggest weights ever lifted off my shoulders. I have someone there that I can always go home to or always call on for help, whether it's to do laundry or to file taxes or to help me learn to cook or help me apply to school, whatever the situation. I always have André I can call on, and his partner Darcy.

I owe pretty much everything I have to that support system being there and to him being there, the social work I had as well, and all the support and love they were able to give to me, even with my troubled growing up.

Now I'm in school. I'm at Algonquin--a four-year program--and I love it. I have so much to look forward to, and I really owe it all to both Children's Aid and to André for giving me that forever home and that sense of belonging.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you all very much for sharing your stories with us.

Typically, what we do now is we go around the committee table and the committee members have a chance to ask you some questions. Usually we have some time limits on that, too.

We'll probably do a seven-minute round, so that will be the questions and answer time period.

Mr. Savage, you wanted to begin.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank you very much, Miranda and Alisha and Lisa and Jon, for coming here today.

It might be a little bit daunting to think you're coming before a parliamentary committee, or maybe it's not. It would have been for me at the age of 20 or 21 or 32, or if I ever get to be 50. It's always a bit of a challenge, but I'm going to tell you, you've brought forward your messages very clearly and very effectively today, and I thank you for that.

We've been studying this issue for some time, and it's been very interesting. It's taken us in a lot of directions.

Clearly, you four are the face of adoption. You are the best spokespeople, in many ways, for adoption and the difference it can make in the lives of people. Many of us take a family for granted. We've had that in place when we're born, and we have it through all of our childhood years, certainly in my case.

I think it was you, Alisha, perhaps, who mentioned your not having somebody to go to when you have a personal crisis of some kind. Now, in my case, my father was a great man. He was involved in many, many things, but it was my mother I used to seek out for a cup of tea. So you bring a powerful message.

Miranda, you spoke about your sisters, one of whom hanged herself, one of whom died on the streets. What would have happened to you if you had not been adopted, do you think?

[Miranda Eggertson]

I think I'd probably be the same way. My parents are alcoholics, so we probably would have been by ourselves and.... It's a really hard subject; sorry.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

So perhaps the difference between somebody who meets a tragic end at a young age and somebody who's connected with their family again and going on to post-secondary education is being adopted and being part of a family?

[Miranda Eggertson]

Yes.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's very impressive.

I want to ask any one of you...I'm not sure if you've had a chance to look at any of the testimony we've heard, but we've had a number of recommendations from a number of organizations and a number of individuals, and from a number of people who were adopted and/or have adopted. Have any of you had a chance to look at any of the testimony, and would you have any specific recommendations to this committee on how we would make adoption better in Canada?

[Lisa Davis]

I can speak to that.

Again, as I said, I think people not having permanency in their lives causes a lot more strain on our public system than anything else. Having connections and attachment somewhere that you can rely on, that's going to take the pressure off so much of the system.

Things like expanding EI opportunities.... Maybe they don't have to specifically recover from physically having a child, but that mother who has carried a baby in her womb has had that time to connect with her child and the partner has had time to connect through the outside and through hearing that voice.

Longer times to connect, that little bit of extra time invested, will make for a huge difference down the road and fewer missed opportunities. Again, creating attachment connection is incredibly important. I think practical supports like increasing EI times for adoptive parents are crucial.

The other thing I find very important is that children do not have the same rights across this country. A child from zero to 18 is not guaranteed the same rights from province to province, because it is a provincial thing, and I understand it will remain a provincial thing. However, I truly believe the federal government can step up and say this is what we believe should be the national benchmark, that every child should be able to have this standard, just like the Convention on the Rights of the Child, that every child is supposed to be guaranteed a certain number of rights. Having the federal government say we believe in permanency for children means that when advocates such as ourselves talk to our provincial government, we can say you need to step up to the national standard. I think that's crucial.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

This shows the many faces of adoption.

Jon, it tells us here that you had two dads. Is that right?

[Jon Daly]

Yes, I grew up with my two adoptive parents, André Fontaine and Darcy MacPherson.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

My godchild has two mums. We have aboriginal children but non-aboriginal parents. As you mentioned, you experienced many different religions. This is the very dynamic situation of adoption, and it affects so many Canadians.

I want to thank you very much for coming today. It was very helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

If it's all right, I might just follow up, because you had a minute left.

Lisa, could you expand a little on the differences in the provinces, the different standards? We've heard some testimony before about having some communication between provinces, but I didn't realize--maybe the other committee members knew. What are some of the different benchmarks in the different provinces?