Human Resources Committee on Feb. 29th, 2012

[Wayne Scott]

I'll give you a couple of examples. I'll use one from our Voisey's environment. We're taking some of that learning into Thompson and what Thompson has actually done.

One of the things that we found out very early on in the development phase of the Voisey's project is when we took potential aboriginal employees from their home communities to facilities in other locations and other communities to train, our records show that almost 100% either dropped out or failed. We rethought the whole training process. We actually, in one particular case, decided to take the classroom to the home community. In one case, we actually took about 10 individuals from the community of Natuashish. We used the heavy equipment that was actually in the community for snow-clearing roads maintenance, and we brought our own instructor. We actually trained the individuals in their home community. I think 90% of those transitioned into a productive job in operations.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

This is basically what we heard from OPG as well. I'm assuming that in the nuclear area as well, if you're looking at.... You've talked about some training of first nations in some of the other areas. What seems to be working is to ensure that there is proper training in the communities themselves, or very close by the communities; that would have a more successful rate....

[Wayne Scott]

Absolutely. You can also put in better supports—family support and mentoring. I know Thompson is engaged in an effort in that particular regard as well to ensure success of the training program. Most definitely.

[Gary Merasty]

I don't know if I can have an opportunity to back that up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Go ahead, Mr. Merasty.

[Gary Merasty]

That is an absolute truism. Since the mid 1990s, that has been the model in northern Saskatchewan: taking the training to the communities. That has resulted in 51% of our mine-site employees being northern aboriginal people. That is one of the key indicators of success—training in the communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that intervention, Mr. Merasty.

I think we're now going to Ms. Leitch.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much for taking the time to come and speak with us today. I appreciate your presentation, and also those of you who are in Saskatoon this afternoon.

Each of you raised the issue with regard to regulatory hurdles. We do talk in generalities very frequently. Could you be very specific with respect to what are those regulatory components that are causing you challenges? If someone were to say to you to write down very specifically the regulatory challenge that you have—or maybe the top three—so that we can address them....

I'm an orthopedic surgeon by training; I don't know your business well, and you probably don't know my business that well. The specifics would be very helpful so that we can address a regulatory challenge if it exists.

Anybody can step forward first.

[John Stewart]

While I'm not an expert on the regulatory side in our industry, I would say that a multiplicity of agencies is a serious problem. After that it's the uncertainty of timelines—very long timelines are a huge problem.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Just to be more specific, when you talk about a timeline being too long, are you saying that 12 months is too long, or are you saying six weeks is too long? I need a ballpark figure.

[John Stewart]

Each regulatory process is made up of many segments.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I understand. That's why I'm asking you to be somewhat specific.

[John Stewart]

The cumulative process of getting something built is too many years in length.

[Pamela Schwann]

Mr. Chair, may I contribute something to this?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Ms. Schwann, go ahead.

[Pamela Schwann]

Thank you very much for this question, because it's one I'd like to address specifically. The government has recently taken some very positive steps with the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act to put some timeframe parameters on the review of projects. However, when those changes to CEAA were made, they excluded projects under the review of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission and the Energy Board.

To us in Saskatchewan that meant those improvements that included timeliness and predictability of process did not apply to our uranium mine project. So we would like to see some parity between the uranium mine project and the other mines. We've seen some improvements, but we'd like to have them across the board.

The other example is the Species at Risk Act. It is threatening development in the very areas you're looking at in northern Saskatchewan and the Northwest Territories. The current flawed recovery strategy would not allow any future disturbance in these areas, and disturbance includes fire, roads, power infrastructure, forestry, and any land clearing. It's not only a concern for natural resource development; it's a concern for community growth and viability themselves.

So there are two very specific examples—the Species At Risk Act and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act—and having them applied across all projects.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Go ahead.

[Wayne Scott]

I don't think we raised any regulatory issues within the presentation. The primary ones within our skills area are probably provincially based. I know that trades certification across provincial jurisdictions creates some challenges. There's nothing at the moment that I could raise.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

To follow up on the comment you just made on interprovincial challenges, we've heard from other witnesses about the challenges of tradespeople and others in being able to transfer between provinces.

What are your recommendations on improving that process?

[Wayne Scott]

That's a key question. There should be better integration and cooperation across all provincial jurisdictions, and maybe even standardization of some of the certification processes. Many provinces have different requirements, so something as simple as that could go a long way.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

For yourself specifically, what trades do you have challenges with in trying to have the mobility of the labour you require?

[Wayne Scott]

It's more what I refer to as the specialty trades, such as electricians, heavy-duty mechanics, some of our millwrights, and mine engineers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

Ms. Crowder, go ahead.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, and thanks to the witnesses for coming.

I have a couple of quick comments.

I want to thank the Saskatchewan Mining Association for raising the issues around training, that not only is it a cost, but there actually are savings as a result of that by having people perhaps no longer on provincial assistance. I think that often gets missed when we're talking about this; we treat training and education as a cost. I think it's an important factor that we have to keep in mind.

Also, for Vale, there's the issue around turnover. There is a significant cost, as you well know, to employers on turnover. When we talk about the productivity lag in Canada, one of the factors is the cost to businesses when they turn over employees. When you have a 50% turnover, that's an enormous cost to businesses.

The third thing I want to touch on, and this is where my question will go, is K to 12. I think Mr. Stewart mentioned K to 12, and I know certainly Mr. Merasty has talked about this in the past. If you can't get students out of grade 12, there is already a problem with them going on to apprenticeship and other technical or post-secondary education. You rightly made the comment that it's not business' responsibility to make sure people are graduating from grade 12, and yet you can't find workers if you don't have people graduating.

I know that there have been a couple of successful initiatives around that, but what else do you think needs to be done? Maybe I'll start with Saskatchewan, because you have a problem getting in here because of the format.

Give me one specific recommendation that the committee should consider around K to 12.