Human Resources Committee on Oct. 6th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We'll get started. I want to advise everyone that today we're going to have officials from three different departments with us at one time, as opposed to in different panels. In the event that questions may relate one to the other, it'll be much easier to handle. With us today we have the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, and the Department of Health. Each will be making a presentation.

You have the opening remarks by the departments of human resources and citizenship and immigration. If any remarks from the Department of Health come along, we'll distribute those before its representative starts speaking. We will then have seven-minute rounds, as we're doing the one panel over the two hours. So your time will be not five but seven minutes. Keep that in mind.

I'll ask the department of human resources to start first. Is that the way we're going to go?

[Jean-François LaRue, Director General, Labour Market Integration, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Okay. Then when you're done we'll proceed to the next department.

After you've all completed your remarks, we'll go to the rounds of questioning.

[Jean-François LaRue]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and distinguished members of this committee.

My name is Jean-François LaRue and I am the Director General of the Labour Market Integration Directorate, within the Skills and Employment Branch of Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. I am accompanied by Mr. Jonathan Wells who is the Director of Operations.

On behalf of the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development, I would like to extend my thanks to the committee for the opportunity to contribute to your study on foreign credential recognition.

This afternoon I would like to provide the committee with a brief overview of the important work that HRSDC's foreign credential recognition program, or FCRP, has been doing to improve the labour market outcomes of foreign trained individuals. In doing so I will focus on the implementation of the pan-Canadian framework and describe some of the areas where we've seen significant progress.

The process for the recognition of credentials is complex, costly, and lengthy, with nearly 500 regulatory bodies in Canada, five recognized credential assessment agencies—and there are even more—and numerous professional associations, post-secondary and vocational institutions, and employers throughout 13 jurisdictions. This complex environment ultimately means that many internationally trained workers are often working in survival jobs and not necessarily in jobs commensurate with their skills and experience.

To address these issues, first ministers agreed to take concerted action by tasking labour market ministers to develop a pan-Canadian framework for the assessment and recognition of foreign qualifications.

Launched in 2009 and led by HRSDC, the framework is a public commitment that establishes a shared national vision and guiding principles to improve the labour market integration of internationally trained workers. Through the framework, regulators and stakeholders are working with governments to ensure that the processes used to asses foreign qualifications adhere to the framework's principles of fairness, consistency, transparency, and timeliness.

Given the broad scope of the work, governments agreed to target two sets of priority occupations—and 14 in total—over three years for individual and collective actions. Among others, targeted occupations include engineers, nurses, dentists, and physicians.

Through national consultation, we're proud to acknowledge that regulatory authorities for the first set of eight target occupations are currently meeting the pan-Canadian commitment to timely service. This means that internationally trained individuals in these occupations are informed within one year whether their qualifications will be recognized, whether they need to meet additional requirements necessary for registration, or whether they may consider a related occupation commensurate with their skills and experience.

We should take a moment here to note that, although FCR is largely an area of provincial and territorial jurisdiction, the federal government is playing a leadership and facilitative role by working closely with provincial and territorial governments to implement the framework. To do this, we've taken a number of concrete actions, such as building capacity among provincial and territorial governments, supporting stakeholders through projects that improve FCR processes, facilitating national coordination among key players, and helping individuals with information and targeted financial support.

Fundamental to these efforts is the close relationship that has been developed with our federal counterparts, Citizenship and Immigration Canada and Health Canada. HRSDC's role focuses on overcoming systemic barriers, meaning we work with the stakeholders to foster the development of nationally consistent FCR tools and approaches.

I will let my colleagues from the other two departments explain their role themselves, but there is quite a basic distinction here: the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development works mainly with Canadian systems to attempt to correct the problems that exist.

The framework is being delivered through HRSDC's foreign credential recognition program. The program has also been providing since 2003 strategic financial support to key stakeholders, such as regulatory authorities, to enable them to develop processes and practices that are consistent with the principles of the pan-Canadian framework.

The program has played an important role in facilitating the emergence of pan-Canadian partnerships. Since its inception, the FCR Program has funded 160 projects worth more than $90 million, including seven provincial and territorial agreements to fund the creation of systems and tools to recognize foreign credentials.

For instance, with assistance from the FCR program, the Canadian Dental Regulatory Authorities Federation is implementing a national process for the assessment of foreign credentials whereby internationally trained dentists, if successful in the assessment, will be eligible to take the national exam without additional skills upgrading. This is quite a change from the past, when the answer was usually to go back to a formal training program of two years. This is quite a departure and quite an achievement.

The program has also supported numerous sector councils to enable employers to assess the tools they need facilitate FCR. Our partnership with BioTalent is one such success story.

BioTalent Canada is working to connect internationally trained individuals with potential employers. It works closely with industry to identify the specific essential skills and competencies required in Canada's bio-economy, which also includes the field of medical laboratory sciences. Through the BioSkills recognition program, immigrants or Canadians educated abroad who are found ineligible for certification as medical laboratory technologists have the opportunity to put their skills to use in a related field. This type of project provides internationally trained individuals with alternative career opportunities that appropriately reflect their skills and experience.

Since the beginning of my remarks, I have underlined the expression “internationally trained individuals”, which also covers Canadians educated abroad who may return to Canada for employment.

Furthermore, the FCR program is funding partners to reduce barriers faced by Canadians as they move across provinces and by internationally trained workers who are trying to integrate into the Canadian economy.

Recent improvements to the Agreement on Internal Trade state that workers certified for a regulated occupation in one province or territory can, upon application, be certified for that occupation anywhere in Canada without any additional material training, experience or assessments. As a result, skilled immigrants and all Canadians are able to access opportunities across the country.

In our discussion with various stakeholders, we often heard about the financial difficulties that foreign-trained workers face when seeking to have their credentials recognized. This is a particular challenge for them because their lack of Canadian credit history and work experience can discourage Canadian financial institutions from providing them with loans. Recognizing this, the federal government introduced in Budget 2011 a complementary financial assistance pilot project initiative proposing to help foreign trained workers cover the costs associated with the FCR process.

In summary, national consultations with stakeholders validated that not only are systems for assessment and recognition of foreign credentials complex, lengthy, and costly, but also that those organizations responsible for these systems have a limited capacity on top of daily business to address these issues in their entirety. Common key messages delivered at these meetings identified a need for more pre-arrival supports, more competency-based assessment tools, sustainable and accessible bridging programs, increased availability of supervised work placement, and financial support for individuals and employers.

As I outlined a few moments ago, significant work has already been undertaken, but continued support is required. To maintain the momentum, all governments and key stakeholders—that is, all of the players that we have on the ice—must commit to ongoing collaboration, build upon successes and lessons learned, and continue to take concerted actions beyond 2012.

Clearly, we think we have the right approach. It is critical, I insist, that we continue building on the key partnerships that we have developed with all priority occupations. This is the key to our long-term success going forward.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that presentation.

We'll now continue with CIC.

[Natasha Pateman, Acting Director General, Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My name is Natasha Pateman and I am the Acting Director General of the Foreign Credentials Referral Office, or FCRO, at Citizenship and Immigration Canada, CIC.

I want to thank the committee for the opportunity to provide an overview on initiatives the FCRO has underway that are helping internationally trained individuals better integrate the Canadian labour market.

Attracting and retaining the best talent to address existing and future labour market challenges is critical to Canada's capacity to adjust to market cycles and to sustain longer-term economic success. As you know, immigration inflows are a crucial source of population growth and are fast becoming a critical source of skilled labour in Canada. Current projections estimate that by 2016, immigration will contribute to all net labour force growth in Canada, as the number of individuals leaving the workforce—from retirements, for example—is expected to exceed the number of new entrants from the Canadian educational system.

Over the past few years, Canada has been increasing its immigration levels as one way of addressing this upcoming labour shortage. In 2010 alone, Canada accepted approximately 119,000 federal skilled workers and 36,000 provincial nominees. However, although Canada accepted a record number of immigrants last year—more than 280,000—all of us are aware of the difficulties that many internationally trained individuals face when entering the Canadian labour market—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Can I just interrupt for the moment? If you could, perhaps just slow down your reading a bit. The reason, of course, is that the translator needs to—

[Natasha Pateman]

I'm sorry. I'm always a fast talker. Everybody's always telling me—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

—be able to hear and understand. If you can slow down a bit, we'd appreciate it.

[Natasha Pateman]

Absolutely.

All of us are aware of the difficulties that many internationally trained individuals face when entering the Canadian labour market in finding jobs that match their skills and experience levels.

Recognizing the complexity of the FCR process and the need to improve labour market outcomes of skilled immigrants, the Government of Canada established the Foreign Credentials Referral Office (FCRO) in May 2007, with a mandate to provide internationally trained individuals with the information, path-finding and referral services they need to have their credentials assessed and recognized as quickly as possible and find work in their field of expertise.

Internationally trained individuals need to have their credentials recognized in Canada by the licensing bodies that regulate professions and trades, or by employers who hire workers in non-regulated occupations. We know that immigrants who have their credentials assessed and recognized within their first year of landing experience better labour market outcomes and have a greater chance of finding jobs that match their skills and experience. The longer immigrants stay away from their profession, the less likely they are to gain employment within their field. Moving quickly through the FCR and licensure process is critical to preventing skills atrophying and to ensuring that immigrants can quickly contribute to Canada's economic prosperity.

To help with this, the FCRO collaborates with federal partners, such as HRSDC and Health Canada, the provinces and territories, regulatory bodies, credential assessment agencies, industry associations, and employers to offer services in Canada and overseas.

One area of such collaboration is the pan-Canadian framework for the assessment and recognition of foreign qualifications. The FCRO has been supporting the development and implementation of the framework since 2009, with a particular emphasis on improving pre-arrival information supports.

In addition to the provision of innovative counselling abroad, the FCRO, together with other governments and key partners, has provided contribution funding to a variety of stakeholders, including the Canadian Nurses Association and the Canadian Council of Professional Engineers, to explore and develop overseas tools, services, and strategies such as online self-assessment modules, mentoring initiatives, and employer recruitment of internationally trained individuals.

Projects like these help immigrants start as many steps as they can in having their credentials recognized before arriving in Canada, which makes them more likely to have greater success in finding jobs that match their skills and experience sooner.

Another significant initiative to support immigrants so that they can hit the ground running once they arrive in Canada is the Canadian immigrant integration program, or CIIP. In October 2010, the FCRO took over the responsibility for the CIIP from HRSDC and expanded its reach and services. This program is delivered in partnership with the Association of Canadian Community Colleges and provides federal skilled workers and provincial nominees, as well as their spouses and working-age dependents, with a two-day orientation session to the labour market and FCR processes in Canada. Immigrants who participate in these sessions receive individual counselling and develop action plans that prepare them for their settlement post-landing. CIIP services are offered in Manila, Philippines; Guangzhou, China; New Delhi, India; and London, United Kingdom. And satellite services are available to Southeast Asia, northern Europe, and the Persian Gulf. By having the CIIP located in these four countries, the FCRO can potentially reach 75% of federal skilled workers and 44% of provincial nominee applicants in up to 25 countries.

As of June 2011, nearly 19,000 internationally trained individuals had registered for CIIP services, and over 13,000 had completed the two-day information session. Preliminary results indicate a marked improvement in labour market outcomes of those who participated in the CIIP sessions overseas. For example, a survey of the CIIP conducted in September 2010 found that of the 1,051 graduates in Canada, 62% found employment in the first six months after arrival. The survey also found that CIIP participants who followed their individual job search plans were more likely to find work within their area of specialization.

Additional services and tools for internationally trained individuals at both the pre- and post-arrival phase include our website, www.credentials.gc.ca., which has products such as Planning to work in Canada? An essential workbook for newcomers, a step-by-step guide that helps prospective or recently arrived newcomers gather information about living and working in Canada. The Employer's Roadmap to Hiring and Retaining Internationally Trained Workers is a guide for employers in small to medium size businesses interested in hiring internationally trained individuals. As of August 31, 2011, the FCRO website had received over 1.9 million visits, an increase of over 42% from last year.

Furthermore, information services at more than 245 outreach sites and over 320 Service Canada centres help internationally trained individuals navigate the FCR process. To date, Service Canada has received over 100,000 in-person visits and 10,000 calls requesting information on regulated and non-regulated occupations, the trades, and the services provided by FCRO.

In addition to these supports, the FCRO also promotes discussion and information-sharing amongst stakeholders who are responsible for assessing, licensing and hiring internationally trained individuals.

This fall, the International Qualifications Network (IQN) will be launched and will provide a one-stop informations site for foreign credential recognition activities which afford employers, government, immigrant service providers, regulatory bodies and academics the opportunity to uphold and share best practices and use this information for their own needs.

The FCRO's information products are important tools that help internationally trained individuals understand the FCR process. But gaining Canadian work experience is a significant hurdle for many immigrants trying to integrate into the labour market. One way the Government of Canada has responded to this challenge has been by creating the federal internship for newcomers program, or FIN. Delivered through the FCRO in partnership with HRSDC and other federal departments and agencies, the FIN program is an innovative initiative that provides qualified newcomers at both entry and mid-career levels with an opportunity to acquire temporary work experience within the federal public service in fields relevant to their education and skills levels.

In addition to the FIN program, CIC is partnering with three immigrant-serving organizations in Ottawa, Toronto, and Calgary to launch a public service mentoring pilot program for newcomers. It's expected to be in place this fall. Through this initiative, newcomers will be matched with public servants in their respective profession or occupation with a view to expanding their professional networks, furthering their awareness and understanding of the Canadian workplace, and enhancing their career objectives and employment search strategies.

In closing, although foreign credential recognition remains a challenge for many immigrants trying to enter the Canadian labour market, federal, provincial and federal organizations are working together and making progress towards minimizing the barriers faced when trying to find employment in Canada. More needs to be done to simplify the process and improve labour market outcomes, which is why the FCRO is focusing on providing information and supports to internationally trained workers as early as possible in the immigration process.

Internationally trained individuals have a key role to play in Canada's economic prosperity, both now and in the future, which is why it is so important that they fully utilize their skills, education, and experience as soon as possible.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope this has provided you with a helpful overview of the work of the FCRO.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Ms. Pateman. I'm sure there will be some questions flowing from that.

As we turn to Ms. Craig Garrison, I might just add that we don't have your notes distributed. I understand the interpreters have them, but just keep in mind that if you could slow up a bit, it makes it a lot easier for the interpreters. So take your time as you go through them. We have lots of time.

[Margo Craig Garrison, Director, Health Human Resources Policy Division, Department of Health]

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. I apologize that you do not have my comments in front of you. I will take the chair's advice and try to speak more slowly.

My name is Margo Craig Garrison. I'm the director of health human resources policy at Health Canada.

On behalf of Health Canada, I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to contribute to your study today. I will focus my remarks on Health Canada's contributions to improving foreign qualification recognition, first by providing some context to my remarks and then some examples of the department's participation and accomplishments.

The recognition of foreign qualifications is important for the health workforce. Internationally educated health professionals, or IEHPs, continue to grow in number and as a proportion of their respective workforces. For example, the Canadian Institute of Health Information reports that international medical graduates, or IMGs, increased by over 14% between 2005 and 2009 and represented 23.4% of the total physician workforce in 2009. Over the same period, internationally educated nurses increased by almost 15% to represent 8.3% of the total registered nursing workforce.

Despite the significance of IEHPs in the health workforce, it is well documented that these professionals face challenges during their path to workplace integration, such as navigating the steps to licensure; their language and communication skills; and their lack of familiarity with and experience in the Canadian health care system.

In 2003, Canada's first ministers made a commitment to work together to secure and maintain a stable and optimal health workforce in Canada. In 2004, first ministers adopted a 10-year plan to strengthen health care and respond to concerns around timely access to quality care for all Canadians. A key part of the plan focused on increasing the supply of health professionals, in part by accelerating and expanding the assessment and integration of internationally trained health care graduates.

In support of the 10-year plan, in its 2005 budget the Government of Canada committed $75 million over five years to the internationally educated health professionals initiative or IEHPI. We are pleased to say that the IEHPI was renewed in 2010. Currently, the initiative has an ongoing funding base of $18 million per year.

The goal of the initiative is to address barriers and to advance progress in areas related to the integration of internationally educated health professionals. In practical terms, this means working to improve access to credential assessment and verification, and increasing the availability of training, orientation, and other supports to facilitate integration into the workforce.

Since 2005, investments under the IEHPI have focused on seven priority occupations: physicians, nurses, pharmacists, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, medical laboratory technologists, and medical radiation technologists. These IEHPI priority occupations align well with the priority occupations targeted for FQR framework implementation.

Approximately 140 projects have been completed or are currently being supported by the IEHPI funding. To provide a few examples of Health Canada's investment, funding has been provided to the Atlantic provinces at $1.2 million over four years. The provinces have partnered to develop self-assessment tools for several professions including licensed practical nurses, occupational therapists, and physiotherapists. These online tools help IEHPs identify whether they have the knowledge and skills needed to work in Canada. By using these tools online, immigrants can access them prior to coming to Canada and therefore be better informed about Canadian practice requirements.

With $7.3 million over five years, the Government of British Columbia is supporting the workplace integration and retention of IEHPs through the development and implementation of courses that help IEHPs improve their communication skills, as well as a course that helps employers identify and deal with communication challenges. Additionally, B.C. will improve consistency across their bridging programs.

The Medical Council of Canada's national assessment approach for IMGs is receiving $110,000 over two years for the common assessment tool the council created to determine IMGs' preparedness for entry into first-year medical residency training. Discussions are now under way to explore whether this tool can be used as part of a common national assessment process for physicians who arrive in Canada practice-ready. And Quebec's

Department of Health and Social Services

is providing $6.4 million over three years to help remove barriers for IMGs and other IEHPs.

In addition to aligning IEHPI's investments with the priority outcomes identified in the framework, Health Canada has been an active participant on the FQR Working Group, which manages this initiative during the first phase of analysis and action planning for the five health occupations selected from among the first eight for FQR implementation.

Building on these successes, governments are leading work on the second set of six priority occupations, four of which are health-related, including physicians.

Health Canada is pleased to act as the co-chair with the Province of Alberta on the Physician Task Team, and is also an active contributor to the work under way with the other health-related occupations.

Health Canada's support for the successful implementation of the FQR framework is not limited to funding provincial and territorial governments and national stakeholders. Health Canada is the co-chair of the federal-provincial-territorial advisory committee on health delivery and human resources. HRSDC is represented as a member of that committee. The ACHDHR has established an internationally educated health professionals task force, which is co-chaired by Health Canada and the Province of British Columbia. The task force identifies the impacts of the framework on health ministries across the country and works towards addressing common policy issues.

As federal partners in foreign qualification recognition, both CIC and HRSDC are invited to Health Canada-organized meetings. We truly are cooperating among ourselves.

After six years of the successful implementation of the IEHPI, Health Canada is revising its policy agenda in collaboration with partners. Among the principal issues going forward are workplace integration issues. These continue to be a challenge, particularly language and communication skills and alternative careers. Health Canada is continuing to work collaboratively with all of our partners, including the regulatory authorities, the professional associations, and others to facilitate implementation of the framework.

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that Health Canada is playing a key role in addressing some of the most complex challenges in foreign qualification recognition and has been instrumental in engaging a wider network of government ministries, organizations, and others who are dedicating their time and effort to improving FQR in Canada. These broad partnerships are essential to the continued success of the framework.

Thank you, Mr. Chair

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that informative presentation.

Perhaps the clerk could circulate your notes among the members, whenever she is able to.

With that, we'll move to our first seven-minute round of questioning, starting with Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you for coming in.

I must admit, with all the acronyms being thrown around, I'm a bit befuddled by the alphabet soup we've been subjected to. I would appreciate seeing Health Canada's notes. I think they would help.

I have all kinds of questions, but I'm going to start with one for HRSDC.

On page 4 of your brief, you indicated that “the Agreement on Internal Trade states that workers certified for a regulated occupation in one province or territory can...be certified...”.

I understand that the AIT has to do with labour mobility. There are many occupations that have different regulations in different provinces. I'm not going to name them all, but certainly teachers and social workers come to mind. I believe teachers were mentioned somewhere in one of these documents.

How does that work for foreign credentials? Say somebody was a teacher and had credentials in one province but there were different rules in other provinces. In fact, Canadian-trained teachers run into that all the time. I was just speaking to somebody yesterday who was trained in B.C. and is trying to find work in Ontario, and this person has to go through this credential process. How does that apply to foreign workers?

[Jean-François LaRue]

Thank you very much for your questions.

Very simply put, once individuals who come to this country are certified in one province, they will be capable of being certified in another jurisdiction they apply to, without any additional material, examination or tests. So they will be entitled to full mobility.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

To use the example of Alberta—though I don't have the differences off the top of my head—I know that it has quite a different standard for social workers than Ontario does.

So if a social worker were accepted as credentialed in Alberta, which has quite a different standard than Ontario, am I understanding you to say they would then be able to work in Ontario, even though the credentialing system there is completely different?

[Jean-François LaRue]

I'm going to use a couple of technical terms here, and you might want to slow me down when I explain this. It's a bit of the reverse onus principle. For many years we tried to have, per occupation, mutual recognition agreements between the occupations across provinces. These processes were fairly intense and convoluted, and were not producing the results we were expecting.

With the reverse onus principle, what we've essentially said is that for regulated occupations, you have full mobility in any occupation, except for a process of transparency called the posting of exceptions. If a provincial government or regulatory agency can convince other provincial governments that, frankly, the standards are so different that there is a material difference between their standards, it can require you to post an exception. It's called supplementary measures or additional measures.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Am I understanding then that it's up to the provinces to apply for that exception?

[Jean-François LaRue]

Well, there is a process where the regulatory bodies will discuss with the provinces the need for posting an exception. What you need to know is that this exception process is not an easy grab; you can't post an exception because you feel like it. It will be assessed on whether or not the difference is material enough. For instance, if you come in and you tell me you have a first-aid course and you think it's material enough for us to post an exception, we're going to look at it very critically. But if the difference is in terms of a course that's fundamental to the occupation, we're certainly going to recognize that difference. Today, there are about thirty-some exceptions that have been posted.

Let me give you an example that is easy to understand. For lawyers, all provinces have posted an exception against Quebec because of the difference between the civil law and common law. I think intuitively that this is because the fundamental differences between the two systems required an exception. You could apply that to the other professions. So if a profession doesn't feel that it has a fundamental requirement, the main benefit of posting exceptions is simply transparency. What we're telling Canadian workers and people who would like to work in another province is that unless there is a posted exception for their profession, they have access to full labour mobility.

That's quite an achievement, considering how long we've been dealing with this issue.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

To clarify this, when you say Canadian workers, we currently have a situation where some Canadian-trained workers need to go through a different process when they want to work in a different province. Teachers are a good example. Canadian-trained teachers' qualifications aren't necessarily recognized from province to province, but my understanding of what you're saying is that for people who have their foreign credentials recognized, this will not apply to them once they are credentialed in one province.

[Jean-François LaRue]

Once they are credentialed in one province, they are automatically allowed, upon application, to be certified in any other province across the country.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Okay.

On page 4 of your brief, you also mentioned sector councils: “The program has also supported numerous sector councils...”. We've heard recently that sector council funding is being cut and, probably, eventually eliminated. I understand there's going to be another process.

What plans do you have in place, because it seems to me that the sector councils are an important part of this? You talk about their enabling employers to access the tools, and so on. How is that relationship going to change if the sector councils are no longer in place? What mechanisms are you going to use to make sure that the information is available?

[Jean-François LaRue]

Obviously, I'm not privy to what's going to happen to sector councils specifically. We do have many activities that we think are very valuable and important. It's our main tool for working with employers. As I'm indicating on sector councils, we have to see what form these new entities are going to take as we go forward. We have a lot of activities with them, four or five that we particularly like. For example, in the telecommunications sector, we have contracts with tourism, we have projects also with BioTalent Canada, and with ECO Canada for green jobs. You've mentioned them already.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you. Your time is actually up.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I'm out of time? That was a fast seven minutes.