Human Resources Committee on Feb. 12th, 2013

[Dr. Kent MacDonald]

Cape Breton really does that.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's right.

I have a question for each of you, though.

Mr. Matte, I think the deliberate steps that you've taken to make sure that the governance is in place and that this thing has the foundation before moving forward is prudent and wise.

I was a little surprised, and I should have these statistics and I don't. The commitment from the government is over what period of time and for how much, and who are the other funders for this program?

[BGen (Retired) Gregory Matte]

The commitment from the Government of Canada has ended. It was a $150,000 one-year grant. I'm just in the process of writing a letter to Minister Blaney to thank him for his contribution.

That said, the financial aspect is only one aspect of it. The profile that the Government of Canada has brought to this project is immeasurable. I know the Prime Minister is personally committed to this by the fact that he was the one who introduced this to the Canadian consciousness 13 months ago. I understand he will do this again in an upcoming event that I won't explain here in this forum.

That said, the Government of Canada has made its contribution. The Government in Alberta and Premier Redford, as well as Dalton McGuinty when he was Premier of Ontario, both committed a $150,000 one-time grant. We have another province on the cusp of making a contribution as well.

From private industry, TransCanada Pipelines has contributed $1 million that's sequenced over five years. It's $200,000 a year over five years. We have associations like the General Presidents' Maintenance Committee, which has also committed $800,000 sequenced over four years. We have individual international unions, which are the cornerstone of this project, like the boilermakers and the steamfitters and others, that have also contributed money to this project.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

They've contributed expertise too.

[BGen (Retired) Gregory Matte]

Yes. You've had Dr. Blakely here testifying before you in the past. He is the national head of the Building and Construction Trades Department here in Ottawa. His department has also contributed a substantial amount of money.

We have other companies now coming to me offering money that we cannot accept, because they do not meet our requirements with regard to what we have put in place by way of a career as opposed to a job.

I hope that answers your question.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Excellent. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Kent, we have talked about the barriers, and I know that there are some bilateral agreements. We see the transferability of Red Seal once people are accredited at the Red Seal level. What's been consistent is everybody's concern around transferring apprenticeships and studying in one place and not having those credentials recognized in other places.

You've identified that there are some bilaterals. Newfoundland and Alberta have one in place. I believe there's one in place too with Nova Scotia. Where does that conversation take place? Is it between institutions? Do Algonquin and NAIT have that conversation? Is it at the provincial departments of labour? Is there a role for the federal government to play in bringing that conversation and allowing that conversation to take place?

That's the first question.

The other one is just off of what Phil was saying as well. The most successful entrepreneurs in Cape Breton are all tradesmen. They're electricians, carpenters, and even teamsters and mechanics who have gone on to have successful careers as entrepreneurs, and they really drive the economy in Cape Breton.

Is there a component within some of the trades to offer introduction to business as well, because many of the tradespeople go on to do business?

Those are two completely different questions, but I'll just throw them out.

[Dr. Kent MacDonald]

The first one is a complex one.

We start with the employers bringing forward their need for the Red Seal. I think there are about 55 in the country now. We need that to occur, and then it spreads out through the governments and through the training institutions. There is some level of irony there, because it starts by defining the common outcomes that we want at a Red Seal level, but the further away we get from that decision as we roll it out through the provinces, the more the curriculum then begins to change.

I had a conversation with our coordinator and chair of apprentices. I asked what the implications would be if I came here today and said we wanted to increase Red Seal trades to 50% by 2015 or so, although I'm not doing that. He had real difficulty with it because of exactly the points that you're raising about having industry and governments and curriculum and institutions. Whereas apprenticeships used to be a bond between the apprentice and the employer, we have complicated that by adding a bond between the delivery agent and the government sectors as well. Having the four of those makes it more difficult.

According to the expert advice that I've received, there needs to be a conversation with the employer to get agreement there, and then it needs to be rolled out.

Could you just repeat your second question, Mr. Cuzner?

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

It was on the entrepreneurial aspect and partnerships.

[Dr. Kent MacDonald]

We have tried to embed business-type learning outcomes where we can. At the college we have looked at doing that within all of our programs—apprenticeship and regular programming—because even if you don't go through the apprenticeship—if you're in our chef program, our electrical program, and others—those are entrepreneurial types of things that are incredibly important in supporting small and medium-sized enterprises.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that.

Your time is certainly up, Mr. Cuzner.

We appreciate the information you've given us and some of the suggestions on where we go.

With respect to the Shop Class as Soulcraft book, of course it's in English only. If we have unanimous consent, we could have these books distributed. If I don't hear any objection, the clerk, I understand, has a number of these books to distribute and will do that.

With that, we'll take a five-minute break and we'll start with the next panel after that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

We'll bring the meeting back to order.

Just to give you some idea of what we're going to do, we'll have each of you share a little bit about yourself then we'll open it up to questions and answers, but before we do that, we have a point of order.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

It is more a point of clarification than a point of order.

Are the officials in on Thursday for two hours?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Yes. We have drafting instructions on the agenda as well, but I would put that at the tail end. We may have to move that over to the next meeting, so we will give the two hours to the witnesses if there's a continuation of questions by the various members.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thanks for that.

Mr. Thorson, you've appeared before the committee before, and maybe we'll have you share a bit and frame some of the areas for us for questioning.

We certainly appreciate hearing from young apprentices on what it is you do. We have Kayla O'Brien, who is an apprentice in the sheet metal area. We're interested in hearing from you for sure.

We'll start with Mr. Thorson. Go ahead.

[Shaun Thorson, Chief Executive Officer, Skills Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, committee, for having us here today.

I won't take up a lot of time. As the chair has mentioned, I have been at the committee before, but just to give you a very quick overview of my role, I'm the CEO with Skills/Compétences Canada. We are an organization that promotes trades and technological education for young people across the country.

We do that through organizing experiential opportunities. One of our most popular is through a competition format that enables youth from across the country in up to 45 different occupational areas to test their skills against other youth from other parts of the country. We do that in a way that is very conducive for media, public, and students from surrounding schools to get a better appreciation of the complexity involved in skilled trades and technology careers.

In addition to that experience, which is focused on those students who are participating in the competitions, we offer Try-A-Trade and technology activities that allow students to try those occupations at a very basic level to get some understanding of what's involved with those occupations.

Today we have a number of apprentices and one journeyperson joining me. A couple of these people, Nathan and Kayla, have participated in our Skills Canada competitions in the past, so they can give you some perspective on what's involved with that. A couple of other apprentices who are currently going through the system are also here.

We're looking forward to the questions that you have for them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Starting with Nathan, maybe you could introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself, and then we'll move on to Kayla.

[Nathan Banke, Journeyman, Automotive Service Technician Program, Skills Canada]

I'll try to make this quick.

My name is Nathan Banke. I am a journeyperson as an automotive service technician—a car mechanic, if you will. I went through an apprenticeship system. I started off with the Ontario youth apprenticeship system. I did one of those early apprenticeships, and went through the rest of the apprenticeship system as a regular apprentice. I completed that and became a journeyperson in 2007.

During that time I competed in Skills Canada at various levels—provincially, nationally, and on a world scale. After that I continued working as a mechanic, but through Skills Canada I ended up working for another company. I met the owner of a different company, where we design and build training equipment for schools. In my current role, I'm the director of business development at a company that provides training equipment to schools across Canada, the United States, and around the world.

In the last three or four years I have travelled—driven and flown—across Canada. I have visited high schools and colleges in every single province—I haven't been to the Northwest Territories—and I've seen the apprenticeship systems in various provinces. I've sat on articulation committees for different provinces and for different apprenticeship systems. I have experience with the B.C. system, Alberta's, and a little bit in Quebec as well, where the company is based.

On a personal level, my brother has gone through an apprenticeship in the last couple of years. He just finished his licence this past year, and I have many friends who are still in apprenticeship to this day.

That is a little bit of information.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Éric.

[Éric Duquette, Student, Plumbing, La Cité Collégiale]

My name is Éric Duquette. I'm from Ottawa. I'm currently a level 2 plumber, a fifth-year apprentice, and I'm currently attending La Cité Collégiale in Orleans.

[Steven Church, Student, Automotive Service Technician (Apprenticeship), Algonquin College]

I am Steven Church. I am currently an automotive service technician apprentice, doing my level 3 at Algonquin College right now. I've been an apprentice for approximately four years. Before that I was in the Canadian Forces, and I'm still currently a serving reservist member.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

All right.

Go ahead, Kayla.

[Kayla O'Brien, Student, Sheet Metal Worker (Apprenticeship), Algonquin College]

My name is Kayla O'Brien. I am currently attending my advanced level, or level 3, at Algonquin College for sheet metal worker, or tin banger.

I love my trade. I don't really know what to say. I do everything from ductwork to roofing. I can do the finicky little pails and everything. I was third generation and I didn't like university; it turns out that this is where I want to go, and I love it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you for that introduction.

We'll now open up to questions and we'll start with Mr. Sullivan.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome.

Is it difficult for you to find the apprenticeships while you're in school, to find employers? Is that a difficult part of the job, or are there lots of placements, and therefore going from being in school to being an apprentice is not difficult? Is it difficult?