Human Resources Committee on Feb. 12th, 2013

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Pardon my ignorance, but are these programs available in Quebec?

[Shaun Thorson]

Yes, in Quebec it falls under Compétences Québec.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you. Your time is up.

We'll move to Ms. Leitch. Go ahead.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much. Thanks, everyone, for taking some time to join us today. I greatly appreciate it.

I too grew up on a construction site, with a father who ran a construction company. I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I just use a different hammer and saw, and they cost a lot more.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

One of the issues—and Kayla, you raised this—is this issue of stigma. It's come up in many of the discussions we've had with respect to this study and others, whether it be parents, guidance counsellors, or others. Tell me succinctly the number one thing we should do to combat and deal with that.

I know this presents a challenge. Is it about advertising? Is it about talking directly to students? What would you say if I asked each one of you, all five of you, to tell us the number one thing we should do to deal with the stigma? It seems to be a huge barrier. What should we do?

Éric, what do you think?

[Éric Duquette]

For many people—not in high school, but a little older, like me—I'm 33—it can take quite a time to get registered. The ratio can be very discouraging. For a plumber, it's three plumbers per apprentice. I don't know many companies that can afford to pay three plumbers to train one guy.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

So it is dealing with the ratio issue.

[Éric Duquette]

That's right.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

That's the biggest barrier.

[Éric Duquette]

It's a big problem, for sure.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Would you comment, Steven?

[Steven Church]

I think talking to students and educating them properly is the best approach.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

At what grade should we start?

[Steven Church]

Start around the middle of high school, towards their senior years. Nobody in high school ever told me what a mechanic did, except for working on cars.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Do you think the students actually have no idea what these—

[Steven Church]

I think most people don't realize what's involved. For me, being an auto mechanic, even now that I'm in the trade, can actually be quite surprising. It's not just a mechanic anymore. I'm part mechanic, part electrician, part computer technician—that's the way the industry is going. The industry is rapidly growing, and it's getting more and more difficult to do the job.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Nathan, what are your thoughts?

[Nathan Banke]

I'll just mention one or two of the biggest challenges for skilled trades. There's the perception that in certain trades there's no regulation, and that any Joe can put his hat on and say it's Joe's Garage, without a licence or any experience. When you don't associate a certain prestige to having that licence or having attained that level of certification, or when the certification is not mandatory—

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

You're talking about mandating excellence.

[Nathan Banke]

Yes. If you mandate excellence, if you raise the bar, everyone who reaches that bar has a prestigious title. I'm not just a mechanic; I try to always call myself an automotive service technician. It sounds a little better. An automotive service technician could be held in the same regard as a low-level engineer, because that is essentially what we do.

This could be true for a lot of the trades, but the regulations need to go a little further. The regulations say that any Joe on the street can go out and buy the parts to go and fix his car at the same prices available to certain garages.

I say this for cars, but it could be for anything. Last night I was installing lighting at my mother's house. I'm not an electrician. Do I know how to do that? Yes, but in my doing that, am I taking away the prestige of an electrician? In a way, I am.

[Kayla O'Brien]

I don't really have an answer, but I do have a stepping stone.

I don't know what the curriculum is across the nation, but in the city of Ottawa, it was mandatory for me to take civics and careers in grade 10. It is mandatory for each section. You have to take x number of sciences, x number of maths through high school. Two trades should be mandatory. Trades need to be reintroduced into high school. Trades are gone.

You're of course going to get teenagers complaining, but that's not a foreign concept.

As you said, I was fortunate enough to grow up around a family of farmers and sheet metal workers and stuff, so although I never went on a job site, I was encouraged to do things for myself. I was told, “Well, I'm not going to hammer up your photo; you're going to go hammer up your photo in your room”, so I held a hammer.

I knew what I was doing, but my friends have no clue, and that is the first step: reintroduce trades and make them mandatory in high school, to a certain extent—just basic carpentry or something.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Kayla, you mentioned that you don't see a lot of women on the job site with you. I can relate to that as an orthopedic surgeon. There are not a lot of women in my profession either.

My question stems from what you commented on, but actually I want to ask it to the guys: how do we get women to actually stand in your job sites? What has to change?

I'm being serious. I'm sure you all interact with women every day at some point in time, at least with your moms. What do we need to do to make sure, Steven, when you go to the job site, or Éric or Nathan, that women feel comfortable or want to pursue the kind of career that you're in?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Who wants to tackle that one first?

Nathan, go ahead.