Human Resources Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

All right, we will recommence.

We appreciate having with us today Christopher Smillie, from the building and construction trades, and Gary Friend, from the Canadian Home Builders' Association, along with Jack Mantyla.

We will get you to each present for five to seven minutes, and then there will be a round of questions of five minutes each.

With that, please go ahead.

[Christopher Smillie, Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO, Canadian Office]

Good afternoon, Chair, members of the committee, and fellow hostages of the committee. Jack and Gary are good folks, and I'm happy to be on a deserted island with them today.

A little bit about us: we are the Canadian building trades and represent 14 international construction unions, which in turn represent more than 500,000 skilled trade workers in Canada and more than four million in the Unied States. We are fully integrated with our other North American partners.

The foreign credential recognition process is an integral part of our business planning in construction. We work with the same major construction contractors on both sides of the border, who in turn do business with the same energy companies in Texas, Alberta, Cape Breton, Newfoundland, New York, and everywhere in between.

This convergence in the energy sector is not going away. I submit that Canada needs to be ready to work with our American partners to fill the needs of construction employers. If you think about it, there really is no need to go anywhere else in the world for skilled workers. We do business with large and small industrial contractors in construction that do business in both free market economies.

The North American economy is essentially fully integrated in most aspects, except for labour market policies. We have harmonized regulations for jujubes, harmonized freight labeling regulations.... In most aspects, we are fully integrated with the economy of the United States generally, except for an easy way to facilitate the movement of skilled workers involved in construction.

Today, I'm not promoting the full integration of our two labour markets. What I will do is propose a couple of solutions to the FCR process that ought to assist meet labour market demands in Canada, which is expected to peak in the very near future.

The work involved or financial resources required in assessing the qualifications of our closest neighbours will pay dividends to our country in the future. By the way, it has been forecast by the construction sector council that by 2017 we will need 320,000 new skilled trade workers in Canada, due to retirements and new economic demands. If this isn't a call to action by the committee and beyond, I'm not sure what is.

Here are my four practical solutions for the FCR process--that's what I was asked to speak about today: first, we need leadership from the Government of Canada and leadership from opposition parties; second, “red seal” exams until the cows come home; third, more occupations and trades included in the “red seal” standard; fourth, value for money in labour market development agreements.

The key players regulating the skilled trades are the Canadian Council of Directors of Apprenticeship, the Red Seal Secretariat--which is HRSDC--and the provincial apprenticeship and licensing bodies.

We need leadership from the Government of Canada and leadership from the opposition parties. What we need in construction is a coordination of these groups working in conjunction with industry, employers, and labour providers. We need the CCDA to talk to us, both as a group of directors of apprenticeship and also as the individual provincial regulator. We need them to talk to employers and help us find people. For example, in the building trades we have access to a large pool of workers in the U.S.A. There is currently no special treatment for U.S. workers in the temporary foreign worker program, mainly because we don't seem to have the resources to come up with a matrix to examine 50 or so apprenticeship systems south of the border.

It is unclear why each of the provinces, the CCDA, and the Red Seal Secretariat haven't looked at the training systems in the U.S. and made it easy for employers and labour providers to access this pool. If a plumber from New York is qualified to work on the Empire State Building, what in heck do we need to do to have that person come to Toronto to work?

Part of the practical solution is organizing this information in one place, a one-stop shop for construction employers to figure out who to hire and from where. Armed with this information, applying to get these folks into the country through the temporary foreign worker process would be a breeze. We would know what a steamfitter from Illinois would be qualified to do and where, all before that person arrives on the six daily flights from Chicago.

Second is the red seal exams until the cows come home. What we need in construction in FCR is the red seal exam to be administered overseas on an ongoing basis, including every other week in the United States. The building trade unions in the U.S. are teaching the program in Chicago, Washington, Oregon, Michigan, and the list goes on. Why can't these folks write the exam down there before they come here? Then we have a pre-qualified pool of workers already certified to work in Canada. We need consulates, missions, and embassies working for Canadian industry in this regard as well.

The infrastructure is already in place. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel with my suggestions; I'm trying to be practical. We offer up our infrastructure in the United States. We have 4,000 locals in the United States to administer the exam, and if we're ever called upon, we'll do our part for the industry in Canada.

Third is more occupations and trades included in the red seal standard. We need more red seal trades, more trade to go through this process, and if Canada decides what competencies are required where, the easier it will be to determine who else in the world has these qualifications. Canada is in competition with the rest of the world to attract investment. Without a workforce to build it, we will fall behind. Talk to large energy players in Calgary about what their number one concern is. You can bet your bottom dollar it's about labour supply and it's about the ability to actually build their project.

Fourth is value for money in the labour market agreements. Labour market development agreements are a huge opportunity for the federal government to show leadership in the FCR process. These deals give the provinces money. It's basically a fully devolved decision-making process with the provinces. So the federal government writes cheques. These LMDAs make the federal government the writers of cheques only. Why not use them to shape foreign credential recognition policy?

I'm not talking about socialism. I'm not talking about tied aid from the federal government. I'm talking about how to get value for money in these labour market development agreements. We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars that already flow between the federal government and the provinces. Let's get value for money, in capital letters, and ensure the provincial regulators are planning for their labour markets of the future. Instead of giving provincial governments carte blanche to do yet another study or another web portal, which tells us what we already know, setting a path and showing leadership on LMDAs might be a good start.

In conclusion, I hope I have provided four practical solutions to the committee.

I also want to draw the committee's attention to a 2007 Construction Sector Council study called “Foreign Credential Recognition Construction Industry Strategy”. We have the strategy. It's about four or five years old. I also direct you to internationallytrainedworkers.ca. There's some excellent product put together by the construction industry.

I brought with me another study, authored again by the Construction Sector Council, for the committee's review. It outlines the suitability of 15 countries and their apprenticeship systems. No surprises in this study: the U.S. ranks first in suitability in terms of meshing our apprentice systems. I thus table this report as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Are you just about getting at your conclusion? You should wrap up and we will receive those reports.

[Christopher Smillie]

Hopefully, with leadership from this committee, we can get to the actual business of bringing folks into Canada to address labour market demands. Our employers will be better for it, our unions will be better for it, and purchasers of construction, such as big oil or big energy companies, would be better for it. I would argue that this kind of thing is essential in securing the next phase of Canada's economic action plan and our permanent economic recovery.

Thank you for inviting me. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much.

We'll now have Mr. Friend present.

[Gary Friend, Past-President, Canadian Home Builders' Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for inviting us here today. I'm Gary Friend, a past president of CHBA. I'm a new home builder in Surrey, British Columbia, where I've been building custom and multi-family homes for over 25 years. With me today is Jack Mantyla, the national coordinator of education and training with the Canadian Home Builders' Association.

I should mention that we've tabled a CHBA report for the committee, “CHBA Backgrounder on Federal Policies and Regulations Related to the Immigration of Skilled Labour”.

Like many industry sectors, the residential construction industry will experience serious shortages of skilled tradespeople in the years ahead. We have been experiencing shortages of labour in markets across Canada for some time. Training programs such as provincial apprenticeship programs will not be able to supply enough skilled people to meet the demand looking forward.

The nature of the residential construction industry influences our views about immigration of skilled labour.

First, many skilled tradespeople in the residential construction industry are employed under contract, whether immigrant or Canadian-born.

Second, most of the companies in the residential construction industry are small businesses. They do not have the resources on their own to address what can be a very complex and lengthy process to find and hire a skilled immigrant worker.

Third, many of the skilled tradespeople working in the residential construction industry are not recognized by the red seal program and therefore do not receive the same level of recognition in other immigration programs, such as red seal trades.

The CHBA supports the recent direction of Canada's immigration policies, including more provincial involvement and responsibility; more flexibility in the range of occupations eligible for programs, such as the provincial nominee program and the temporary foreign worker program; more responsiveness to the employer requirements, with a shift to employer determination of occupations in need; and increased opportunities to immigrate for people who work within Canada. I'm speaking of the introduction of the Canadian experience class, and the mandatory language requirement, introduced in 2010.

The CHBA has expressed support for these and other recent measures in submissions to Citizenship and Immigration Canada and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada.

There are two issues related to recognition of foreign credentials that are important for skilled trades: first, language requirements; and, second, recognition of provincially designated residential trades.

In relation to the first point, the language requirements of the federal skilled worker category of the economic immigrants program over-emphasizes the requirements for people working in the residential construction industry. The tiered approach to language proficiency used under the Canadian experience class would be more appropriate for skilled tradespeople.

In relation to the second point, many of the trades required by our industry are provincially designated but not recognized by the red seal program. Also, some do not have the unique national occupational classification codes used by immigration programs. These shortcomings seriously limit the ability of our industry to make use of immigration programs.

I should note that we have recently written to the Forum of Labour Market Ministers to ask them to put this issue of recognition of provincially designated residential construction trades on their agenda. The CHBA believes that broadening recognition of residential construction trades beyond red seal to include all provincially designated trades is one of the most effective means by which governments in Canada can reduce skilled trades shortages and increase labour mobility in the residential construction industry.

The allocation of points for education and experience used in the federal skilled worker category for skilled tradespeople gives relatively greater weight to education over practical experience.

Arranged employment is difficult for many companies. Current immigration programs lack flexibility to accommodate a worker being employed by two or more employers.

On behalf of the CHBA, we're making the following recommendations to the standing committee about the recognition of foreign credentials:

Apply the tiered approach to language proficiency requirements used in the Canadian experience class to other programs, particularly the federal skilled worker category of the economic immigrant program.

Incorporate the issue of recognition of provincially designed residential construction trades not covered by the red seal program into the pan-Canadian framework for the assessment and recognition of foreign credentials.

We'd like to make two other recommendations. Greater consideration must be given to the work experience of skilled tradespeople in the point system ratings of the federal skilled worker category. And in order to meet the arranged employment criterion, there must be more flexibility to accommodate working for two or more employers.

All of these recommendations are designed to address the growing and serious shortage of skilled tradespeople in our industry.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much. We appreciate those recommendations and suggestions.

We'll open it up to questions, and we will proceed with Mrs. Hughes.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you very much for your intervention here today. It's greatly appreciated.

Have any of you been able to tap into the foreign credentials program?

[Gary Friend]

In the majority of the trades, residential construction doesn't qualify under that program.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Have you tried? Have you talked to the government about the fact that you can't have access to it, and what it would mean if you could have access to it? If the program were accessible to you—you are telling me it isn't accessible—what would that mean for you?

[Gary Friend]

In the program, only four of 29 occupations that are recognized for federal skilled worker applicants are construction-related trades. The trades aren't even on the list, so we're not able to take advantage of it.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Chris.

[Christopher Smillie]

On the industrial side, the trades are on the list. If a steamfitter is coming from England or Germany, they are currently assessable under the foreign skilled worker program. The 15 industrial trades we are responsible for are currently moderately well represented in the program.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

There has been a difference in the witnesses who have come. Some have said that the job we've been doing has been helping to integrate new immigrants who come to the country for whatever reason, whether it's for family, or because they asked to move here. Others are saying there are just not people going into that field.

[Christopher Smillie]

Sorry, I don't want to jump in, but we are talking about two silos here: permanent immigration, and temporary immigration. When we talk about permanent immigration, there's an historical issue with people in the construction trades. Say you have a four-year apprentice program from Germany and you want to move to Canada on a permanent basis. It's not treated the same way as a bachelor's degree from Germany would be treated. There's a disconnect between the permanent and the temporary systems.

In the temporary system at the current time it's not an issue, because it's used for a shorter period. But if that person wants to move to Canada.... I have to give credit where credit is due. Citizenship and Immigration Canada is changing the regulations, wherein if someone has a four-year training program that has been assessed and is recognizable from another country, they will soon be able to use that as the equivalent to a bachelor's degree in the permanent silo. That's excellent.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I will let Jean ask a question, and if there's time I will ask another question.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

There seem to be two different points of view on the red seal program. I wonder if we can clarify that. I heard Mr. Smillie say that he wants to see the red seal program expanded. But I understand Mr. Friend to say that he wants provincial designations recognized, which may not meet the red seal program. Is that correct?

[Gary Friend]

Currently, some of the residential construction trades are not covered by red seal, but they are provincially designated.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Right, so you're saying you want that situation to continue. I know we're talking about residential versus industrial, and that's where it gets confusing. Can we continue to treat them separately?

Mr. Smillie, you were advocating quite strongly for an expansion of the red seal program.

[Christopher Smillie]

Sure, or everything should be expanded into one bucket, so at least we know what we're looking for in this country. It may be red seal or provincial buckets, but let's do things once, not eleven--

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

In your view, that would include residential construction, whatever that system might look like--some agreement for both the industrial trades and the residential construction trades.

[Gary Friend]

Residential construction is facing a severe shortage of trades, so whatever process could help us get those qualified trades to the marketplace would be a great help. The provinces recognize this, and that's why they're designating residential trades for training that aren't under the red seal.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Shortages in the trades, both industrial and residential, are not new. We've known for 15 to 20 years that we were going to suffer severe shortages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Okay, we'll leave it at that comment and move on to Mr. McColeman.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for coming today and presenting.

I'll just underscore Ms. Crowder's comments. Having been in construction for 25 years myself in the residential area, we knew about this 20 years ago, easily. It has just worsened over time.

One of the issues back in my day was interprovincial barriers that got in the way of all trades. I'd like your views from both the industrial and residential sides here. How do you view those interprovincial barriers as barriers to immigrants to come here, or to people who want to come to Canada to work in the trades? How big are those barriers, in your opinion?