Human Resources Committee on Oct. 28th, 2014

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

You listed the constraints and there seem to be many.

If this bill is passed, what are the main administrative obstacles that will need to be overcome for this single window to be set up?

[Robert Frelich]

The first consideration we have is the authority to use a social insurance number.

It may be helpful to explain in layman's terms how the current process works. If an individual passes, the death certificate is filled out by the funeral director. The death certificate is sent to the vital statistics agency of the province. That information is then verified and uploaded into the social insurance register.

What happens then is that the programs we have now update their programs electronically. We receive the electronic link from the province. The programs that use the social insurance number, for example, the Canada pension plan and the old age security program, update their programs electronically by using the updated information in the social insurance register. Currently that process is only limited to those programs and departments that are authorized to collect the social insurance number. To be able to expand this to other programs, one of the major considerations would be that we would have to expand the authority to use the social insurance number to other programs and departments.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Do you have any idea how long it will take to implement this single window?

You talked about restructuring costs, but do you have any idea how much time would be needed to implement a program like this?

[Robert Frelich]

It would be difficult to speculate on how long it would take. For example, for certain programs, to get authority to collect the social insurance number would require legislative change or regulatory change. That can take some time, so it would be difficult to say. It would depend on the number of programs and departments.

We have done some initial work to look at which programs and departments actually require death notification. In our discussion with some programs, it's not only whether they'd be interested—some departments say they'd like to know—but whether or not they need it and the number of people that would use it. Volumes are important as well to ensure that if we're going to move forward with expanding the number of departments that actually use the SIN for this purpose, it's a good use of resources, in terms of the volume of information and the people who would use that information, to require that department to be informed of an individual's passing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

We move on to Mr. Maguire, for five minutes.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you to the presenters for being here today to enlighten us with regard to the types of criteria you would require to have changed to move forward.

I'd like to acknowledge first-hand the good work of Service Canada a couple of weeks ago when we held a local passport clinic in my hometown. Thanks to those officials as well back in Manitoba.

You have outlined some of the processes. I have a question with regard to key challenges in establishing Service Canada as a single point of contact regarding matters that Mr. Valeriote brought forward in Bill C-247 to simplify the whole process of informing people as to a death in Canada.

Could you elaborate on what regulations and legislation may be required?

[Robert Frelich]

Treasury Board authorizes the use of the social insurance number under the directive of the use and operation of the social insurance number. Departments can obtain that authority either through the Treasury Board through regulation or they can do it through the departmental legislation. It is not for each department. Departments have to demonstrate a need to collect it, and what they would want to collect the SIN for. Given that the SIN, and more importantly the social insurance register, holds a lot of sensitive personal information about Canadians, only those departments which can demonstrate a need for it collect it. There is a process to go through to determine which departments and programs would like to collect the social insurance number and for what purpose.

[Bev Davis, Director, Policy and Partnerships, Department of Employment and Social Development]

If I may add to that, we also have to negotiate information-sharing agreements which lay out what kind of information is disclosed and for what purpose. That's another element that goes along with the Treasury Board directive on the use of the social insurance number.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Would this require many more resources to accomplish those goals? Could you elaborate on that as well?

[Robert Frelich]

As I stated in my opening remarks, we have done an initial estimate. To bring another department online to the electronic link that we have to allow us to upload that information out of the social insurance register, our estimate is about $900,000 per department and then about $50,000 a year to maintain it.

To give you some idea, with the vital events linkages process that we've put in place with the provinces, it has cost us about $17 million since about 2006.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Do you foresee any savings, though, in the amalgamation of some of these processes, or at least of the information flow to the other departments?

[Robert Frelich]

At this point it would be difficult to say what any potential savings would be. However, there would definitely be an increase in efficiencies for the department to our current processes right now.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Yes, and it certainly is an expansion of the services, of course, to those who are involved in it at a very trying time in their lives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks very much to the witnesses for their testimony.

Regarding the question posed by Mr. Maguire and the cost of implementation, you peg it at about $900,000 per link. You had indicated in your preliminary discussions on this topic that there were departments that would like to have the information, and then there are departments that feel it's necessary.

Could you give us a profile of the departments that think it would be nice and the ones that deem it would be necessary?

[Robert Frelich]

In our initial analysis, we've determined that some departments that currently do not have access to the social insurance number for this purpose would benefit greatly from it.

One would be Passport. It's demonstrated in the need to be informed upon a death. Passport Canada wants to know of someone's passing so that the passport is remitted.

Citizenship and Immigration Canada would also benefit greatly from this, especially with respect to permanent and temporary residents. They have to remit their documentation and their permanent resident card or their immigration documentation.

Finally, the other major beneficiary would be Aboriginal Affairs, for benefits conferred on those with Indian status. Because of the benefits associated with Indian status, they would also require death notification in a timely fashion.

Those are the three principal departments we have identified at this point, based on the requirements of their programs. There are others. Fisheries and Oceans was mentioned, but we haven't been able to determine whether there's significant volume and whether it would be worth the investment to put that department online.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Frank had mentioned Fisheries and Oceans and Veterans Affairs as well.

Have you had discussions with Veterans Affairs?

[Robert Frelich]

We have an agreement with the OAS program right now concerning Veterans Affairs. They get the information from the social insurance register and then they are allowed to inform Veterans Affairs Canada of deaths for those individuals who are on OAS.

However, in the rare case where a veteran is not in receipt of OAS, they are not part of that agreement. If, for example, a veteran were to pass away who is too young to be in receipt of OAS, they would not be part of that electronic link. That's why Veterans Affairs is one of the other departments we looked at and have determined has a need to benefit from this type of arrangement.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You commented about some ongoing conversations with the funeral home owners, and we're going to get testimony on that today.

Do you see their role as being more of a conduit to the portal as opposed to any kind of assumption of responsibility, or do you see it as just directing them to the portal?

[Robert Frelich]

I think what this process has highlighted for Service Canada is that there are some improvements to be made in how we communicate what needs to be done and what is automatically done upon the death of an individual.

Using the funeral association is a big part of that. Through our discussions with them, I believe they said that over 99% of all individuals who die within Canada go through a funeral home due to provincial requirements for that. Since they are the people on the ground dealing with survivors and people who are in mourning and whatnot, they are best placed to tell us if what we are doing is helpful and whether we can improve the process.

What we are currently looking at, based on one of the suggestions of the funeral home directors, is providing information to the funeral directors that they can provide to their clients, which will set out what programs are informed automatically. For example, if you had Indian status, that's currently not informed automatically. It would set out which programs you need to inform yourself about until we're able to potentially put them under the social insurance number and make them part of the system, and also any potential benefits that people may be eligible for, as well as highlighting how to apply for those.

We would use the funeral home association network, and we've been working with the association to provide that information across the country. We would equally provide that same information both on our website as well as at 1-800-O-Canada, and in Service Canada centres as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I want to thank our officials for being here.

In Mr. Valeriote's opening remarks, he talked about the U.K.'s Tell us Once system. I don't know how familiar you are with that. One of the components that he talked about was that in the next decade they anticipate it will save them $300 million.

You talked a bit about the cost of implementing this program for the departments that will have access to it. I think it's $900,000 per department, and $50,000 every year for the maintenance and upkeep of that connection. From your knowledge of that program, where are they finding these savings? Do you anticipate some of the same savings from the system that would be implemented if this legislation passes?

You might not know, but—

[Robert Frelich]

No, I don't, unfortunately. I'm not in a position to say where the U.K. government is anticipating those savings. I know that in our current process it will provide us a much greater efficiency in terms of the largest programs that affect the most number of Canadians. One of the important parts of that also will be providing information to the Canada Revenue Agency. We currently provide a copy of the social insurance register every week to the Canada Revenue Agency for tax purposes. They do have the information. We just need to make sure that we are coordinated and make sure that we have that information, the system in place to do that.

As for the savings, it's difficult to say at this point, since we don't have the full system in place. Tell Us Once is definitely something we're looking at. We're looking at the experience of the Directeur de l'état civil in the Government of Quebec. They have a similar Tell Us Once system provincially as well.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

There might be some concern out there as we move towards a more unified system of the social insurance number with the potential of identity theft and people maybe causing mischief by misinforming. I think, for the vital statistics network that the provinces have set up in conjunction with the federal government, there's protection against that already built into the system.

[Robert Frelich]

Yes, there is. The securest way for us to receive information is through an electronic network. It has the IT protections. Also, more importantly, it's the authoritative source. That means after the death certificate goes to the vital stats agency, they validate the information so that we know that if an individual is marked as deceased, it is the correct individual. The worst thing we could do would be to identify a wrong individual as deceased. That's one of the most important things. It is secure and it is accurate. That's why we want to focus on electronic transfer of data and try to limit as much human interaction as possible.