Human Resources Committee on May 28th, 2015

[Ian Shugart]

We do. We have data suggesting that the percentage of claimants working two or four days per week while on claim has increased from 43% to 50%. Another way of looking at this is to measure the employment income that is earned while they are on claim, and that also has increased.

There is evidence, and it's perhaps a matter of judgment, but we think those increases are material. The income earned, for example, has gone from around 46% to just under 53%. That 46% to 53% is not enormous, but it's significant for those workers.

The reason for the extension is that there is still mystery attached to some of the regional implications of that, so the government wanted to explore those regional dynamics a little more closely and for that reason, it extended the pilot for working while on claim.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you.

Budget 2015 reaffirms our federal government's commitment to and implementation of significant reforms to the temporary foreign worker program last year. A lot of the reform of the temporary foreign worker program was that a strengthened program compliance regime was to be implemented. Roughly how much money has been allocated to reforming the temporary foreign worker program?

[Ian Shugart]

Paul, can I ask you to answer?

[Paul Thompson]

Well, I have the spending figures—

[Ian Shugart]

You're in a better position to.

[Paul Thompson]

Is it in our supplementary estimates for the previous fiscal year?

Do you want to speak to that, Alain?

[Alain P. Séguin, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Yes, for the previous fiscal year, 2014-15, $22 million was put aside. As we ramp up the program going into 2015-16, we are now putting forward the budget requirements for the amounts into 2015-16 and 2016-17. We haven't finalized those numbers just yet, but they will be in supplementary estimates for 2015-16.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Do you have any anticipated outcomes from this that you're looking at?

[Alain P. Séguin]

In terms of the program? I'll have to ask my colleague Paul to answer.

[Paul Thompson]

There's been a gradual expansion over the years of the authorities of our enforcement personnel with respect to the temporary foreign worker program. There's now an expanded authority with respect to conducting on-site visits and authority to compel documents, and there's a broader scope of offences being pursued.

In addition, the government has proposed a range of increases in terms of administrative and monetary penalties. There was a discussion paper put out last fall with the government's stated intention of bringing forward new regulations to toughen the penalties essentially for wrongdoing in the program, with the appropriate gradations that correspond to the degree of severity of the offence. Those are some of the examples we're rolling out as part of the reforms.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

For this money that Mr. Séguin mentioned, how much of that is allocated towards the implementing and strengthening of the compliance regime, or is that part of that money? Is it all combined in the program?

[Paul Thompson]

The amount that Alain referred to out of last year's estimate was a global amount. I don't have the specific portion that was attached to compliance. It's one of two main capacities. There's the capacity to actually conduct the labour market impact assessment and then the compliance activities. Those are the two main functions as part of the increased spending. I just don't have the specific breakdown. As Alain noted, we're in the process of confirming our numbers for the current fiscal year.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I take it from this that we are increasing our compliance in the temporary foreign worker program altogether.

[Paul Thompson]

We are indeed.

An additional element is the government's decision to post the names of non-compliant employers where there has been a revocation of the labour market impact assessment. That's been implemented, and there are employer names that are now attached to that list.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

Madam Davies.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

We had a little bit of discussion earlier about child care, and the minister threw out the number of $20 billion a year for what he said was a government-run national child care plan. I'm not sure what he meant by “government-run”. You could have various interpretations of that. I'm just wondering whether or not the department has actually done any costing of the NDP plan that is being proposed.

[Ian Shugart]

I could clarify, Mr. Chair, but I don't believe we have costed that plan.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Okay, so we don't really know what this $20 billion refers to then.

[Ian Shugart]

I'm afraid you've lost me on the specific number.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

If I may, I might try to clarify for you, because my recollection of the testimony from the minister is that he talked about 1% of GDP as the estimated cost of the program that you're referring to. Then he went on to extrapolate it for the $20 billion value. We can check the records.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

So we don't know where we got the 1% from.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Yes, the 1% is how he got to that number.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

But we don't know how he arrived at the 1%. Anyway, I was just curious to know whether or not you'd costed the plan that the NDP had come up with, because I just don't know where this $20 billion comes from.

I want to switch gears, because CMHC is here. I'm from Vancouver, obviously one of the hot spots in the country around affordable housing. We recently had a rally in Vancouver organized by a young woman. It was her first time doing that and it was totally non-political. She organized a rally. Three hundred people showed up with a couple of days' notice and she developed a hashtag. Her first tweet ever she put in a news article, and it said #DontHave1Million, meaning that's what you need to have to own a home in Vancouver.

I'd just relate this back to you, because certainly in Vancouver, there is a housing crisis, an affordability crisis, whether it's for a rental or for home ownership, whether it has to do with the lack of opportunities around co-ops or the whole operating agreements. I remember the days when CMHC was a great provider of grants and funds to develop not-for-profit housing. We can all think of the veterans housing that was built after World War II, probably when CMHC began. Now it seems to be really nothing more than a mortgage insurer.

In fact that's how the minister introduced you. What kind of future do we have in terms of CMHC being part of the solution and moving away from just being a mortgage insurer? I mean we have a crisis in this country in affordable housing, and CMHC used to play a very important role. I know that from being a municipal councillor for five terms and I know how important CMHC was. That's all gone now.

[Evan Siddall, President & Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation]

Thank you for the question.

Mr. Chair, on behalf of the government, CMHC continues to provide $2 billion per year in assisted housing programs. That includes $1.7 billion pursuant to existing historic agreements and about $300 million per year in new funding, most of which is provided in partnership with the provinces under the investment in affordable housing program with matching dollars. That has been about an additional $2 billion over the 2008 to 2015 period, as I recall.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I know that the figure of $1.7 billion gets thrown around a lot, and I've had it in letters, but to be clear, those are existing long-term commitments as a result of mortgages that came about 25 years ago, or whenever it was. That's something you can see in its own separate way. In terms of new contributions, say, for the provision of cooperative housing which is a very affordable program and which has been very successful in Canada, we don't see anything from CMHC. Is there anything new that's on the horizon?