Human Resources Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2018

[James Van Raalte]

Very briefly, the regulatory impact assessment statements that are required for each regulation package are required under law, under the cabinet directive on regulations, to include a cost-benefit analysis for each set of regulations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Morrissey, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to go back to the 5,000 positions within the public service. I understand that those are existing positions that will be designated to be filled by persons with a disability.

Am I correct?

[James Van Raalte]

Yes, you are correct.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

That leads to my second question.

Not only do people with disabilities face greater challenges in the rural parts of the country, but employment opportunities are limited as well.

Has that been analyzed within the department when you made the decision to identify 5,000 positions? That would take your ratio from, I believe you said 5% to 7%, which is still small considering that the population is 14% of people with disabilities.

How would you address the issue of people with barriers in small rural communities with limited federal positions there to begin with?

[James Van Raalte]

I think that is a very important question, and it speaks to the range of programming that's offered by the Government of Canada, in terms of the new workforce development agreements that have been negotiated with provinces and territories, and in terms of being able to meet the employment needs of persons with disabilities. As well, there's the opportunities fund, which is another $40 million a year to work with the not-for-profit sector to identify priorities for the supports that a person might require, both to get them into an interview and to get them ready for an interview, and then for the supports they may require in terms of that first job or the transition to another job. That funding, both the funding that is provided to provinces and territories and the opportunities fund, is provided across Canada.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Do you have any data on what the picture is today, where positions are located?

[James Van Raalte]

I'm happy to get that data for the committee. Those responsibilities are elsewhere within my department, but we can certainly supply that for the committee.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I would like to see a breakdown of where existing positions are located, which are being filled by people with disabilities. I do applaud the minister for setting an initial target. Is this an additional 5,000?

[James Van Raalte]

It's not incremental to public service hiring; it is within public service hiring. It's an additional 5,000 over the next five years.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Is that within the public service?

[James Van Raalte]

Yes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Still, that number will only go from 5% to 7%.

I want to go back again. You had spoken briefly, I believe, to my colleague Ms. Falk, on exemptions and limitations. I want to apply it to a rural context, again to small identities, small business. You did speak to it briefly in a good way. Could you elaborate a bit more on how the legislation would work in those communities, with businesses in those communities? Would it be similar to an urban centre, which would have a large footprint?

[James Van Raalte]

It's the same process for any regulated entity seeking an exemption. There would be an application made to the responsible minister or regulatory body. Depending on the jurisdiction, it could be the minister responsible for accessibility, it could be the minister of transport, who is responsible for the Canadian Transportation Agency, or it could be the CRTC. The public service would then provide advice to the minister responsible on whether that exemption, and the basis for that exemption, were founded. Then there would a determination by the responsible minister or the responsible body, and that exemption must be published, for transparency purposes, in the Canada Gazette.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Do you know what the timeline would be around that? Have you determined that?

[James Van Raalte]

I have to say no.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

You're referencing a lot of departments, and different departments and agencies would have to respond. Is there a governance model in place that supports this whole-of-government implementation? Obviously it requires a whole-of-government implementation process. I'm not sure if that was addressed. You may have, but I'm not sure if it was.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Briefly, please.

[James Van Raalte]

It was addressed. It's at three levels. There is the new deputy responsible for public service accessibility. Again, she'll be happy to present to the committee on Tuesday. Each deputy minister is required to submit an accessibility plan, and so there's lots of governance amongst and between deputy ministers and departments.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

That deputy minister's primary responsibility is to oversee the whole of government.

[James Van Raalte]

She will be responsible for developing a Government of Canada strategy to allow the Government of Canada to become a leader on accessibility.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Falk, go ahead, please.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thanks, Chair.

I know I've heard a lot this morning about culture change. In my previous experience in my line of work, I had the opportunity to work with people who had an array of disabilities.

I'm just wondering if there really is the belief that creating a whole new bureaucracy, more departments and more red tape is actually going to shift the culture. I know through working with people that it was the worst when we would have to call this person, that person and that person just to get them a ride somewhere, or work with social services, or that type of thing. So I'm just really wondering if creating this whole new department is going to shift the culture as it seems to be believed will really happen.

[James Van Raalte]

I think there are a couple of policy responses to that question.

First, we do know that directly involving persons with disabilities in the decisions that affect them will affect that culture change. Having them involved in an organization where they are informing the development of accessibility plans and informing how that organization thinks about persons with disabilities—both employees with disabilities and customers or citizens with disabilities—will change the conversation about how that organization approaches that customer base or those employees.

From a policy perspective, having persons with disabilities involved in governing the Canadian accessibility standards development organization and being involved in technical committees for standards development, again, will change the conversation about those issues that affect the lives of persons with disabilities.

Do I think legislation is the only silver bullet for changing the conversation? That's not what I'm saying. There are lots of other things that can and should be done in terms of that culture change.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I guess really my point is that I don't think a top-down approach works well. I think if we're really going to shift culture, it's everyday people at the grassroots level whom we have to impact. I guess that's just my question. I just don't see how effective, tangible, real change is going to happen today by doing all these consultations and all these reports that are projected for years down the road.