Human Resources Committee on May 16th, 2016

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you to our witnesses for coming here today.

Ms. Byers, I do want to reflect on some of your comments. You started off by saying that there concerns around the nature of this review. We're certainly keen to continue to highlight our concern that this is a truncated process and, unfortunately, is not even transparent.

For example, this meeting isn't even being televised for people to watch, and all the while we know—even in the last 24-hour news cycle—about the very alarming stories that are out there in terms of the kinds of exploitation that temporary foreign workers in our country are experiencing. Canadians are deeply concerned about what they're hearing. In fact, that is how I want to begin my round of questions.

Obviously today there has been much attention given to the experience of Sheldon McKenzie from Jamaica, a seasonal worker in the Leamington area, who suffered a head injury and eventually died from his injuries, and whose family had to fight—unnecessarily—to keep him in Canada to get basic health care. I want to read into the record the words of Chris Ramsaroop, from Justicia for Migrant Workers, who said this about the temporary foreign worker program:

To be blunt, I consider this an apartheid system. Migrant workers live and work under a different set of legal rights and obligation[s] than we do. We are not denied basic human rights, we are not denied health care. They are seen as disposable and temporary.

Obviously he was speaking in particular to the seasonal agricultural worker program. Do you agree that the level of exploitation we're seeing, whether it's in the seasonal agricultural worker program or in other sectors as well, means that we have to take this issue far more seriously than we are, and that it is in fact an urgent issue?

[Barbara Byers]

I can be short, and say, yes.

There's a reality here. I think we've seen it even in terms of the evidence that's been given. When you're talking about, and the example you gave, the very specialized person who needs to be brought in, there is a discussion to be had there.

Then there are those thousands and thousands of low-skilled, low-paid workers who are very much left vulnerable when they come into this country, and who are expecting that by coming here they might have an avenue to be able to stay at some point.

I heard the same example today on the CBC. We certainly hear it when we meet with domestic workers, who make up a hidden workforce in lots of ways. When they come into Canada looking for something.... They're looking after our children while they've had to leave their own children behind. They're looking for a different way of life. What they find is they're having their passports held. They're being underpaid. They're being asked to do more work. They're being overcharged for accommodation. There's a whole range of things.

I think it's a huge issue. That's why this work of this committee is so important, and it's also important to get it right. If it were our families experiencing that, we would want people to pay as much attention to it as possible to get it right.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

I know the CLC is on record as sharing a powerful statement, which is if you're good enough to work here, you're good enough to live here. I'm wondering if you can speak to how critical access to citizenship is when we're talking about temporary foreign workers.

[Elizabeth Kwan]

I think one of the reasons the CLC calls for access to permanent residency is that one of the features of the temporary foreign worker program that makes workers vulnerable is the employer-specific, or tied, work permits. What happens is that everything depends on that one relationship with that one employer. That's great, if the employer is great, but if things go wrong, there is no avenue to appeal. There's no avenue to have a voice to say, “I'm being exploited. This is abusive.”

The ask for the permanent residency, or pathway to permanent residency, is to take apart that employer-specific work permit element. Doing so will allow people to exercise for themselves some decisions around their own protections of their labour rights, as well as their human rights.

In your example of the seasonal worker, one of the features of the seasonal agricultural worker program that is horrible is that we have bilateral agreements with these countries, and the workers don't volunteer or queue up to come. Their government has to nominate them.

Of course, that adds a whole other layer of compliance, and people have been badly hurt because employment standards, and health and safety standards weren't adhered to. No one is going to say much. If they say anything, they don't get to come back.

There are so many ways in this program, the temporary foreign worker program, that create situations and vulnerabilities for migrant workers that they cannot.... On paper, they have rights, but in exercising them, not so much.

[Barbara Byers]

The past head of the machinists said, “At the CLC, we believe in immigration, not exploitation.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now we are going to Mr. Ruimy for questions, please.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you for your comments, everybody.

My questions will be geared toward Mr. Litwin.

As a fellow resident of B.C., who's been to Whistler many times—love the place—I am well aware of the challenges you have. We all know it's transient up there.

Looking at it from a different perspective now on this side of the House, or on this side in politics, the first question I have for you is could you walk us through a little more on how you are targeting local Canadians or youth for jobs, rather than relying on foreign workers? What are you doing? What are some of the things you're doing?

[Val Litwin]

Our biggest employer in town, Whistler Blackcomb, has a very aggressive and robust recruitment rhythm annually throughout the Lower Mainland, including digital advertising, which would include social media advertising and things like targeted Facebook ads to youth for sure. As a chamber, we partner with WorkBC. We've put on two job fairs this season in partnership with WorkBC. That's not something we used to do. That's something we now consider it our duty and responsibility to do. Many of the local employers, as well, physically go down to job fairs and make sure they're posting on job sites throughout the Lower Mainland. Again, it's very targeted, so it's not just taking out a craigslist ad in Vancouver but advertising on the island, in Victoria, in Nanaimo, and in Duncan, and getting very specific with their advertising campaigns.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you.

Often in the media we hear the negative stories, the stories about poor working conditions. Could you tell me a little bit more about the working conditions of the workers over there? What control or impact do you actually have on those working conditions?

[Val Litwin]

Of course, I can't speak to the detailed experience of everyone who comes in, but I can say, given that our business is to create happy experiences for people when they come to the resort, that we can't have unhappy staff create happy experiences for our guests. For example, at the Fairmont, they have tremendous staff accommodation for all their workers there. There are terrific benefits.

Again, this is a community that has a multi-decade history of having to be very creative, innovative, and aggressive in our hiring and retention practices. Conditions would extend from the health benefits, like discounted ski passes to the hill, to subsidized staff accommodation. To my knowledge, it's a very good situation for our front-line workers in Whistler.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Have you heard any horror stories there?

[Val Litwin]

To be fair, I think there would be typical ski-town stereotypes of multiple people living in a room, but I think that is not the norm, absolutely, and it's a short-term thing.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

Let's talk a little about wages in Whistler. Have they increased over recent years? Have they changed at all?

[Val Litwin]

Yes. I quoted a statistic a little earlier. We did a survey at the end of summer 2015, heading into our last winter season, and 78% of our businesses surveyed said they had increased wages in the last six months; 71% of those businesses said that increase was between 6% and 25%.

As a note, in B.C. for workers in the tourism and hospitality sector, these numbers are coming from go2HR, which is our provincial resource for human resources in tourism. Part-time workers in tourism and hospitality in B.C. make $14 an hour on average; full-time workers make $20 an hour on average.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I just want to touch on LMIAs. When you apply for your LMIA and you get approved, are there any statistics on the people actually getting in? You may be told you can go out and hire somebody, but when you find somebody, are a lot of people turned down because they're not qualified?

[Val Litwin]

That's a fair question. I have not heard of many examples of that. What I have heard is that more on the leading edge of the application process, it can be very difficult. With regard to some of the examples brought up here on this panel, those are very legitimate reasons to be bringing a person in, but it's a very long and difficult process to reach the finishing line.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

You mentioned before that in Whistler the unemployment threshold is about 1.8%. I'm going to give you 45 seconds to tell us why you think it should be changed for you.

[Val Litwin]

Just to clarify the question, you mean why should we be exempt from that 6% rule? That's a great question.

The mainland south-west catchment is currently at 6%. We're at 1.8%. I think given our distance from a large urban centre that it isn't easy for people to necessarily commute daily to the resort; and that we're well beyond full employment, given all the exceptional efforts we have put into play to recruit and keep Canadians. It's sensible and it recognizes the actual unemployment number of 1.8%. So we would be advocating for more specific micro-market data so we can make better decisions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

That's the end of the first round. Beginning the second round, I believe we're going back to Mr. Ruimy.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

We're going to go back to that 1.8% again.

I think part of the challenge is that Whistler is such a great, beautiful place that people across the country may not really understand why it's so hard for somebody to hold down a job there. Keeping in line with that kind of questioning, what do you suspect would be the long-term implications to businesses in Whistler if these exemptions are not met?

[Val Litwin]

What we saw at the end of last summer and we started to see this winter—and I think we'll hit that choke point again—is that businesses started to limit their hours. I have more data, and we'll have our handouts and white papers translated for the committee here, but 40% of my members report having between four and 20 positions unfilled in their businesses. So that is, 40% of my members say they have between four and 20 positions unfilled.

So what happens, to your question, is we limit work hours. I know of restaurants that have stopped serving lunch, for example. I know some restaurants and cafes that have closed for specific days of the week. It compromises our ability to present a tremendous product for our visitors.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Okay. So now, the percentage that you just gave us is not only referring to the highly skilled snowboarding instructor, but it's also retail. Can you try to give us a little bit of a picture of what that looks like? I understand that not serving lunch is not good, but how bad is that in the overall context of business in Whistler?

[Val Litwin]

What it means is, if you've ever had the experience of walking into a store when you desperately want to be helped by a member of that team, the experience is of walking around and feeling like no one is taking care of you. It does again compromise our ability to deliver those world-class experiences for people when they come to the resort.

People have longer wait times, questions are going unanswered, and guests are left wondering what is actually happening in a business in many cases.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

For those positions are we talking cooks, dishwashers, waitresses, that sort of thing?

[Val Litwin]

The top four most needed positions in Whistler right now are line cooks, housekeepers, front of house food services, which includes servers, bartenders, and hosts, and front desk agents, so that's guest services and reservation agents. Of note, 14% of the businesses we surveyed are desperately in need of management positions, so we're not just talking low-wage positions. We have tremendous career opportunities for people up in Whistler in high-paying jobs.