Evidence of meeting #123 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was discussion.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Does that include non-profits having access?
Director General, Accessibility Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development
To the regulation? It would.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Would there ever be an instance of a non-profit needing to request something and having to pay?
Director General, Accessibility Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development
If any organization wishes the standards development organization to undertake work above and beyond its regular business, this provides the flexibility for the standards organization to charge for that. It's flexibility. It's a “may”.
The board of directors could set policies about who it would charge for what.
Conservative
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Just to clarify, because I think this is where you might be going, CASDO will create the standards, but it's not incumbent upon them to print and give out the material to people—or is it? Will I be able to call CASDO and say, “I'm this organization. Give me 500 copies of the standards act”, for example?
Director General, Accessibility Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development
Ideally, Mr. Chair, the standard would be published. It would be online, so people would be able to access it.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I don't understand. I don't care what the organization is; if they're trying to remove barriers or be an active part of a barrier-free Canada, why would we put a fee in their place to do that? We just heard that we're legislating and we're leaving regulations up to CASDO. They're not going to be independent and they're going to be answerable to the government, and now they're going to charge a fee? It's counterintuitive to every other argument you've made earlier tonight.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
CASDO is technically going to be a specialty board where people with lived disabilities, who've experienced it, are going to be writing regulations and standards and that type of thing.
If there's a non-profit in a small town somewhere in northern Saskatchewan, for example, and they want to reach out to this.... We did hear that 40% of indigenous people have a disability. If we have a non-profit that is there, helping, trying to do good with limited resources, they technically, theoretically, would not be able to tap in to have CASDO make something for them, because there will be a fee associated with it.
Is there going to be any give with that? It just seems that this is another barrier, except it's a monetary barrier, not just a physical one. It's counterintuitive to this bill.
Director General, Accessibility Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development
Again, Mr. Chair, it's permissive. CASDO will set its priorities in consultation with the minister. It will follow out those priorities.
The challenge will be that it can't be working on everything for everybody at the same time.
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Could you maybe give us an example of who would pay for something? Just give me an example. If I am an organization and I go online and you have the resources, I can download those resources for free. What would be a situation in which you would charge me to do something? What would be an example?
Director General, Accessibility Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development
Off the top of my head, Mr. Chair, an area of technology that is very important to everybody is point-of-sale machines. We access those in businesses, we use them in banks. You use your debit card or your credit card.
Many different governments and jurisdictions have a role to play in the regulation of point-of-sale machines. You may have leadership from Canadian banks that says, “We want to get out from under all the red tape of the different regulators and we want CASDO to give priority to us so that we can offer our citizens and our clients accessible point-of-sale machines. We don't want to wait for the next round of standards, because you're developing standard one and standard two. We want CASDO to develop the standards on those point-of-sale machines.”
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
It just sounds as though there are a lot of things left to the assumption that they are going to be done, and we all know the saying with assumption, right? It's really going to suck if 10 years down the road the stuff that's being debated here today and tomorrow doesn't get done or is overlooked.
I would really just plead with this committee that we don't leave it all up to discretion and presumption, because we heard from the disability community about how they have been waiting and waiting. They have never had a voice at the table and they finally do, and it's going to be a real shame if we leave everything on presumption.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
We heard from the financial service community actually, and not to put you on the spot, Mr. Van Raalte, but they have the impetus to develop their services and not wait for CASDO. They told us that they are trail-blazing and they are innovating.
I don't see how allowing an opportunity for a fee is not going to translate to another barrier or another insurmountable object that an organization or a community advocating for the rights of people living with disabilities is going to have to overcome, when there are already so many other things they have to overcome.
It's evident with this legislation they've been waiting for that there are no teeth and no enforcement. We just heard that it's going to be up to a discussion or rapport with a minister, not even the transparency and the accountability that we anticipated.
South Surrey—White Rock, Lib.
More than 50% of the CASDO board is made up of with disabilities, so they're the face and the voice of making some of these decisions. If we're looking at the continuum, when a person with disabilities is applying for something, I think it's pretty clear that those people would not have to be charged. At the other end of it, if it's Canadian Tire or some big international corporation asking for a whole bunch of things, there is that level of discretion.
I think there is a long continuum there. Some judgments have to be made with respect to that. I think in those instances, the principle of those people in need.... Am I interpreting this correctly in terms of the range?
Director General, Accessibility Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development
I believe you are, Mr. Chair.