I appreciate your finishing this bill during the break. It's much appreciated. Thank you very much. Maybe we won't have to stay until 11 o'clock tonight if you keep getting that work done. The stakeholders watching at home or listening here might actually be able to get to bed early tonight instead of having to stay up and listen to the proceedings.

(On clause 15)

We will go back to where we were. We will come back to CPC-9 in clause 15, line 21. Are there any comments on CPC-9?

Mr. Diotte, go ahead.

9:25 p.m.

Edmonton Griesbach, CPC

Kerry Diotte

Mr. Chair, the amendment reads:

That Bill C-81, in Clause 15, be amended by replacing line 21 on page 6 with the following:

“15 Subject to the Statistics Act, the Minister must collect,”

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Again, Ms. Hardcastle, this is identical to yours, which is next. Do you want to make a comment?

9:25 p.m.

NDP

Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, “the Minister must collect”, and not “may collect”, is important.

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Thank you, Ms. Hardcastle.

Are there any other comments on CPC-9?

Mr. Diotte, go ahead.

9:25 p.m.

Edmonton Griesbach, CPC

Kerry Diotte

It's not a comment, but I'd like a recorded vote on this.

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Mr. Nuttall, go ahead.

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

I think this is on the same topic of accountability down the road.

We don't have a timeline, and we don't really have a plan for a timeline. The only thing we really have is information updates that tell us how well this is being implemented or not implemented.

It would require StatsCan because, out of the public sector, markets are going to be affected by this, so we want to know what the reporting is, how well they're doing, etc. If there's no mandatory trigger to pull that information out, I'm not sure how we're going to stay on top of it, except for somebody saying somewhere that they think it's in this place but they don't actually have the data to back it up.

That, I think, is where the feeling was in terms of “must” versus “may”. And I don't want “may” to equal 20 years. I want “must” to equal continuously.

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Thank you, Mr. Nuttall.

Mrs. Falk, go ahead.

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also think that language will continue and maybe even accelerate culture change. I think changing the language to something that's more accountable is going to send a strong message that this is something that must be done and will help influence that culture change for accessibility.

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

Are there any other comments on CPC-9?

Mr. Ruimy, go ahead.

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

My understanding is that we can't change “may” to “must”, because we can't compel the agency or the Queen to do that. I think the folks at the other end can explain that, the “may” to “must”.

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Mr. Van Raalte, go ahead.

9:25 p.m.

Director General, Accessibility Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development

James Van Raalte

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The use of “may” is consistent with Westminster democracies, and it's consistent with drafting. It is enabling legislation. But the decision is the choice of the committee.

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Thank you, Mr. Van Raalte.

A recorded vote has been requested.

(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 3)

It is denied, and therefore NDP-2.1 is also denied, as it is identical.

We now move to CPC-9.1.

9:25 p.m.

NDP

Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Chair, I have a question.

Mine was coming next, NDP-2.1.

9:25 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

That's correct.

9:25 p.m.

NDP

Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Can I change mine, then, to “shall” instead of “must”?

9:30 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

Do you want to make an amendment to your amendment?

9:30 p.m.

NDP

Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Yes. That way we can try this again—with “shall”. This language is really important. I feel that we need to revisit this and get a grip again, because we're losing some of the traction that we started building on.

Would you consider the word “shall”? That will be my amendment.

9:30 p.m.

The Vice-Chair Mr. John Barlow

I'm sorry, Ms. Hardcastle, but the feeling from the clerk is that it is still the same amendment, so because it was voted on in the previous one, it cannot be brought back forward. You could have made the amendment to the CPC amendment, but because of how it works, once that was denied, the following one, which was identical, was denied. We cannot go back.

Does that explain it?