Evidence of meeting #136 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was apprenticeship.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
—and so they come in under the wire, in terms of the rules to work.
Executive Director, Toronto Community Benefits Network
They have to eat.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
They have to eat, so if we could surface their participation and “credentialize” them as well as legalize them, we could build a stronger workforce and enrol them in the training programs to get the workforce we need.
Executive Director, Toronto Community Benefits Network
As I said, Ahmed, the gentleman that I spoke to, was also a newcomer and wasn't eligible. He had issues with his immigration situation, but we were able to help him, and he is on a path to citizenship. He was able to secure himself and get a job in the trades. He's doing pretty well right now.
We want to see more of that kind of success story happening with those who are already here.
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
The other issue you haven't spoken to and that I'd be curious to hear your remarks on is the EI changes that were made to allow for training while someone is on benefit. How important have those changes been in bridging that gap around the eight weeks they'll pay while you get credentials, and some of the other issues?
Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Construction Secretariat
The changes are important, but as I mentioned, a lot of times people are not seeing their money until the ninth or tenth week when they're already back to work. That's been a problem I was trying to fix in my previous role. Sometimes it just takes so long to get it processed, and they're not getting it until their ninth or tenth week. That's the problem.
They get paid every week in construction. Every Friday is payday in construction. They are guys—I have three sons—and they think, “I'm going to put some money in the pot. I'm not going to be making as much money. I'll be getting EI,” but sometimes they don't save enough and all of a sudden they're there for eight weeks and they don't have anything coming in. They didn't save enough to pay bills during that time. EI doesn't kick in until the ninth or tenth week, and then they get a big lump sum. They've already—
Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Construction Secretariat
Yes, they've already gone back to work. That is a problem.
A lot of times, you have a hard time getting someone on the phone. Sometimes it's an online submission, and you didn't do the postal code right, or you did a code wrong and don't know why it's being delayed. Unfortunately, there's that whole bureaucracy you have to deal with, and you don't know—
Liberal
Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON
The culture is that everyone is gaming the system. Therefore, you have to check twice before you send a cheque.
In Atlantic Canada, and in parts of Quebec where we have seasonal industries, there has been a concerted effort to make the turnaround time from application to receiving.... Is it a possibility to do that in this—
Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Construction Secretariat
You can apply a week or two before you actually start your training, but you can't hit “send” until you have actually physically stopped working and are at the training centre.
I don't know. I just think that if there were a help line or a process where they could see—
Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Construction Secretariat
—where their application was.... Sometimes they don't know until the fifth week that they did something wrong.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you.
We have just a few minutes left, Wayne, if you have a brief question.
Liberal
Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Moreau and Ms. Hayes, I was a teacher for a very short period at a community college and I recognize full well the level of input from instructors at community college, because I used to have fun saying, “This is what the textbook says,” and then I'd shut the textbook and say, “This is how it really works.” Compare that with universities. I have concerns at times that universities get people in and want to give them that piece of paper, but then the students graduate and are not really qualified.
How do we fix that? We all recognize that community colleges prepare students better, especially in trades, but what do we do to kind of up that preparedness with universities, in your opinion?
Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Some are coming to realize that experiential learning, if you will, has become sort of an important component, and there is some catch-up being played. The work-integrated learning is similar to that, but the reality is that you go to university for an arts education, an engineering degree or a medical degree, or you become a broke lawyer like I am, whereas I should have gone in to become an electrician. I'll be paying my student loans for many more years, unfortunately, and I did it when it was relatively cheap, almost 20 years ago.
The point is that there has to be a commitment on the part of the universities to decide they are going to take that on, but meantime we should continue to promote colleges and polytechnics and continue to make sure that those soft skills are being taught early on.
Liberal
Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB
Thank you very much for that.
I'm going to give Rodger the final word here.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Robert, I know you were seized with EI. To go back, it would have been about four years ago when about 600 people were cut from EI call centres, EI processing centres. The processing centre in my community was shut down, and we saw that the attrition rate in apprenticeship was a direct result of those seven, eight and nine weeks waiting for EI calls. We've gone back and invested in that. We did a full and complete EI service quality review and streamlined the process.
Do you have more current data?
Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Construction Secretariat
I was speaking about that because I used to be the training director, so I lived it. That was two years ago.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
When we did the study on apprenticeship, it came out very clearly that it was one of the aspects of apprenticeship. I remember having a full panel of apprentices one day, and every person couldn't get anything processed, and they were waiting eight to 10 weeks. Traditionally, apprentices start at a later point in their lives, so they have payments, apartments, cars and what have you.
It would be very interesting if you could get from your people what the situation is now with those reinvestments having been made.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you very much.
That brings us right to the top of the hour. Thank you very much, everybody, for being here. This is our first witness panel for this study, and it's been very interesting with a lot of information.
Thank you very much, everybody, and of course to the interpreters, to the tech folks and to the folks to the left and right of me, I appreciate it very much.