Evidence of meeting #146 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Chantal Maheu  Deputy Minister, Labour, Department of Employment and Social Development
Graham Flack  Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development
Leslie MacLean  Senior Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development and Chief Operating Officer for Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Good afternoon, everyone.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee will consider the main estimates for 2019-20, votes 1, 5 and 10 under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation; vote 1 under Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety; votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80 and 85 under the Department of Employment and Social Development, referred to the committee on Thursday, April 11, 2019.

HUMA's mandate is broad and touches on many different areas of responsibility. Today, Minister Hajdu and Minister Qualtrough are here to discuss their portfolios. We understand Minister Qualtrough is running a bit late, but we will get started and hopefully she will be here shortly.

I would ask that the committee members keep their questions related to those portfolios and save their questions on housing and seniors for the other ministers we will be seeing next week. Although the questions and discussions at these meetings are generally wide-ranging, the rule of relevance does apply.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), each committee may consider and report, or shall be deemed to have reported, the votes in the main estimates back to the House not later than June 10, 2019. If the committee opts not to report to the House, the estimates are deemed reported to the House on June 10.

Appearing today we have the Honourable Patty Hajdu, Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour. As stated, we will be joined by the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, Minister of Accessibility.

From the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have Graham Flack, Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development; Chantal Maheu, Deputy Minister, Labour; Leslie MacLean, Senior Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development and Chief Operating Officer for Service Canada; Mark Perlman, Chief Financial Officer and Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer Branch; and Benoît Robidoux, Associate Deputy Minister, Employment and Social Development.

The ministers will have up to 10 minutes each to make their statements, followed by rounds of questions.

Mr. Barlow.

Noon

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will be really quick. Because of what you just mentioned and the amount of information that we deal with for these two ministers—and I know they're scheduled for a 10-minute presentation each—I would like a unanimous consent to reduce that to five minutes each. That would give us more time for questions. I think that's important.

We've had the minister here recently. I don't think we necessarily need that 10 minutes. I would ask for unanimous consent to cut their introductions down to five minutes each, ensuring that all of us have an opportunity to ask questions of both ministers.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Do we have that unanimous consent?

Noon

Some hon. members

No.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Without further ado, I will turn it over for the first opening remarks from the Honourable Patty Hajdu, Minister of Employment Workforce Development and Labour.

The next 10 minutes are all yours.

Noon

Thunder Bay—Superior North Ontario

Liberal

Patty Hajdu LiberalMinister of Employment

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's an honour to be here with you all today.

I'd like to thank my team for joining us to talk about main estimates. It's always great to appear before this committee and talk about the things we're doing for Canadians to make sure they have the skills to succeed no matter what their circumstances.

Our department's 2019-20 main estimates clearly outline what our priorities are for this year, which is really all about creating jobs and growing the economy.

Our economic record speaks for itself. Since we were elected, we've seen the creation of 900,000 jobs and unemployment is at a historic low. As I travel across the country, it's clear that this growth—although wonderful for the economy of Canada and for the many people who now have jobs who didn't have under the previous government—has created a new problem. The new problem is labour shortages. The challenges that I hear now from employers are about where can they find people and how do they find people with the right set of skills that will help them grow their business.

I know this committee has done several studies on these shortages and how they affect different industries in different regions, so I thank you for your very important work. We've all heard these stories of employers who are increasingly struggling to find employees and we've all heard that we need to make sure that Canadians have the right skills they need to fill these growing shortages. We know the importance of skills training and education, not just for Canadians—obviously for Canadians, so they have a fair shot to succeed no matter where they live—but also for our businesses, so they can continue to grow and prosper and to have people to fill those important jobs that help them continue their important work.

We know that continued investments in people are the best way to ensure our economic success. These investments are highlighted in the 2019-20 main estimates. I will say that in the face of ongoing labour shortages, it's been particularly disappointing to see other governments not take the call from employers seriously. While our government is helping Canadians reach their full potential and ensuring that businesses have the people they need to grow, it's disappointing to see provincial Conservative governments doing the opposite and creating barriers to business growth. This is very short-sighted and will lead to a significant increased pressure on businesses in terms of being able to find people with the skill sets they need. I always say that good social policy is good fiscal policy. We just can't afford to leave anybody behind. We need to make sure we're maximizing our full potential as a country.

These cuts should really be concerning to us all. Without a skilled and robust workforce, we're not going to be able to fill these growing labour shortages. Our businesses will suffer, our economy will stagnate and in the end the workers themselves will pay the price. As the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour, cuts to skills training always deeply concern me.

We are moving in directly the opposite direction of these kinds of provincial Conservative governments by investing in things like student financial assistance, so that more Canadians can access and afford post-secondary education; a modernized youth employment strategy, so that young people have the skills they need to succeed in the workforce no matter what their own personal circumstances might be; and student work placements, so that new graduates get those on-the-job skills—those new relationships with employers in their sector—so they can immediately enter the labour market after their graduation and have the kinds of skills that employers are looking for, so their employment opportunities are very quick and immediate. As well, of course, there are scholarships for indigenous learners, so that Canada can reach its true potential.

Again, with a shrinking population, we have new challenges, one of which is that we need more people than ever to fill those important jobs all across the country. Making sure that every single student in this country has the ability to reach their full potential is not just good social policy, it is good economic policy.

Of course there are other items, which are contained in our main estimates all along the same theme of ensuring that people have what they need to be as competitive as possible in the labour market and that our businesses can continue to grow.

When it comes to labour shortages, there's another part of the solution that this committee knows all too well. My parliamentary secretary—who I've been quoting a lot lately—has a saying when we talk about labour shortages, which is to find a Canadian, train a Canadian or make a Canadian. I'm sure that many of you are aware of a Conference Board of Canada report that came out on Friday titled “Can't Go it Alone.” This report highlights that immigration will be the only way to fill labour shortages in the next couple of decades.

The board says that by 2030, all 9.2 million of Canada's baby boomers will have reached retirement age, placing Canada under immense economic and fiscal pressure. When political parties and leaders purposely use messages of fear and confusion to mislead Canadians, they do a huge disservice to our businesses and our economy.

We know that we need Canadians to understand the need for immigration and to understand that immigration is a vital part of growing our workforce, our economy, our businesses and our communities.

In fact, the CEO of the Business Council of Canada said, “There's too much at stake and we cannot afford to keep playing these tired political games.” In the coming months, business leaders will be engaging the public on the issues that matter and leading the way on elevating the discourse. It's not just about our economy; it's about Canada.

While our government is doing our part thoroughly to find and train untapped talent, even if every Canadian is fully trained, we will still need more people.

I ask my colleagues on all sides to ensure that we provide opportunities for every Canadian, every permanent resident and newcomer. Our businesses will very much thank us.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for giving me this opportunity to address this committee. I'll be pleased to answer the questions that you have.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

Also joining us, we have the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, Minister of Accessibility. Welcome.

The next 10 minutes are all yours.

12:10 p.m.

Delta B.C.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough LiberalMinister of Accessibility

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize for my tardiness.

It's certainly a pleasure to be here today with my colleague, Minister Hajdu, to speak to the 2019-20 main estimates, particularly funding for disability programs, and to update you on the progress made as Minister of Accessibility.

Since 2014-2015, our government has been working hard to ensure that persons with disabilities are taken into account in all of our decisions and policies.

In this year's main estimates, you'll notice that there is an increase of $98.6 million to the Canadian disability savings grants and bonds. This is due to steady growth in total registered plans and participation in the program, which is very good news.

In like manner, we are proposing two changes that will better protect the long-term savings of Canadians with disabilities in budget 2019: first, eliminating the requirement to close a registered disability savings plan, RDSP, when the beneficiary no longer qualifies for the disability tax credit. This will allow grants and bonds to remain in the RDSP instead of having to be repaid to the government; second, exempting RDSPs from seizure and bankruptcy, with the exception of contributions made in the 12 months before the filing. This is to level the playing field in comparing amounts in RDSPs to amounts in registered retirement savings plans, which are currently exempt from seizure by creditors and bankruptcy.

As well, we're increasing our support with an investment of $12 million over three years for Ready, Willing and Able. This will help to improve the employment of persons with intellectual disabilities and/or autism spectrum disorders who face unique barriers in finding jobs.

We also want to support the inclusion of Canadians with visual or reading impairments who cannot read ordinary printed material. By supporting that inclusion, we are eliminating barriers to employment and learning.

We propose to invest $25.8 million over five years, starting in 2019-20, to help make more reading material accessible for persons with print disabilities. To reduce barriers to daily activities such as paying for groceries, our government proposes to invest $500,000 in 2019-20, through budget 2019, to find ways to improve the accessibility of electronic payment terminals. One by one, these investments open the door to more opportunities for persons with disabilities.

Accessibility and inclusion are two of my biggest priorities. I'd like to provide further details on how we are making systemic changes to improve accessibility for all Canadians, including those living with disabilities.

The proposed accessible Canada act, which you all know very well, aims to level the playing field for everyone by proactively removing barriers in a number of priority areas under federal jurisdiction. The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology has heard testimony from many stakeholders over the past weeks, and recently completed the clause-by-clause analysis for this transformative bill.

The disability community has voiced its support for the swift passage of this bill, through the over 1,200 letters and emails I have personally received lately outlining the importance of this legislation to Canadians and the need for it to be passed into law. Our hope is that it will receive royal assent before the summer recess.

To make sure that the necessary structures are in place when the bill becomes law, our government has already started working on three key proponents: the establishment of the new Canadian accessibility standards development organization, the recruitment of the CEO and board of directors for this new organization, and the recruitment of the chief accessibility officer.

Finally, the pre-consultation process has started for the development of initial regulations under Bill C-81.

Thanks to these important steps, we know that once the bill has been given royal assent, we will be ready to take the lead.

I hope that this update on our planned expenditures in the main estimates, as well as on our efforts to promote the inclusion and removal of barriers for persons with disabilities, has been useful. I trust that it is has reiterated our commitment to continuing that work in the coming fiscal year.

As was said, my colleague Minister Hajdu and I would be pleased to answer your questions.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you.

Also, thank you both for being brief. It gives us more opportunity for questions.

First up we have MP Barlow.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Minister Qualtrough.

You were talking about the importance of being barrier-free. As part of the discussion at committee on Bill C-81, we certainly heard from almost every single stakeholder on the concerns raised that the bill does not go far enough, that it does not have the metrics to ensure success or the teeth to ensure that federally legislated businesses adhere to it.

Now, there were dozens of amendments that we brought forward that every opposition party agreed with. None of them were supported by the government. However, many of those amendments have come forward and have been accepted at the Senate. I'm just curious and would like to know if you're going to be supporting those amendments that have come forward from the Senate, specifically the addition of a timeline of 2040 for Canada to be barrier-free. Are you going to support those amendments?

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

I certainly am open, as I told senators, to amendments within their process, but I'm very mindful, of course, that it is their process to run. I'm looking at their suggestions, looking at what the government thinks would be the best for this law, and I'm open to many of their amendments, yes.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thank you very much, Minister. I appreciate that.

Minister Hajdu, you were talking about the mistakes that provincial governments were making. However, I would say that if the Liberal governments at the provincial level were doing such great jobs, they wouldn't have all been losing these provincial elections over the last year. So, I think there were some concerns from their constituents on some of the policies that they were bringing forward.

I met with a group of some of the union lodges, with pipefitters and boilermakers and some of the building trades unions, over the last few weeks, and in some of those lodges, 70% of their members are out of work. Seventy per cent is a huge number, so although you say that you're having all this wonderful success, their concern is with the lack of infrastructure being done, specifically pipelines, and also with some of the training programs that are available.

You've brought forward, as part of the budget, the Canada training benefit program, which I think is a novel idea and a step in the right direction. However, you've been touting this program as this outstanding opportunity for additional training for Canadians, but what you have failed to tell Canadians is that this program doesn't actually happen unless you have an agreement from all the provinces and territories to change the leave provisions in their own labour legislation.

How many provinces and territories have you spoken with on this issue of the Canada training benefit program, and how many provinces and territories have agreed to partner with your government on this program?

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

I'll just address the first part of your question. In terms of infrastructure projects, it's extremely disappointing to see provincial Conservative governments refuse to open up streams of infrastructure spending, like in Ontario, for example. That is putting this construction season at risk.

So, I would go back to those union folks and talk to them, as I have been, about the importance of putting pressure on their provincial governments to make sure that they open those streams of infrastructure spending in a timely way so that we can get shovels in the ground this season on many of the important projects that are required across the country, such as bridges and roads, infrastructure that Canadians depend on and that will result in employment this summer for many of those tradespeople.

In terms of the Canada training benefit program, this is a new idea. You're right. It's something that we decided would be important to Canadians. I know that this committee has been looking at the issue of precarious work, the issue of digital transformation, the issue of Canadians' worrying that as their jobs change they won't have an opportunity to participate in training in ways that make sense in their lives. These are significant issues. People talk about two barriers. They talk about the barrier of money, and they talk about the barrier of time.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Mr. Chair, I asked a specific question. I have only six minutes.

How many provinces have you discussed the program with, and how many of them have agreed to change the leave provisions in their legislation to ensure that this program moves forward?

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

As we move forward—if I could complete my answer—part of the process is the consultations and how we get this right with the provinces, with employers and with, of course, the Canadians who will use the program.

I think my officials have something to add.

May 7th, 2019 / 12:20 p.m.

Chantal Maheu Deputy Minister, Labour, Department of Employment and Social Development

Thank you, Minister.

There are different elements to the training benefit. In terms of the leave provision that you mentioned earlier in your question, we have begun the discussion with provincial officials. Officials with the labour program have had a call with their provincial counterparts at this point. Because this is just beginning, the call was focused on explaining the benefit: how it works and the kinds of leave provisions. We've just initiated the consultations.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

What happens if you do not get buy-in from the provinces and territories? What happens to the program?

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

A brief answer, please.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

MP Barlow, I don't like to play in hypotheticals. What I count on is that—

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

It's not a hypothetical. It's a fact.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

What I count on, MP Barlow—

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

If you don't get agreement, what happens?

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

What I count on, MP Barlow, is that provinces will share our perspective that an educated workforce is important and they will be open to responding to the call of employers—and believe me, that's a loud call— that there are better-skilled people all across this country to take the positions that they can see exist in every province.

Thank you.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Well, in fact, employers have raised concerns with this program: that you are asking the employers to cover the cost of the paid leave, as well as having no metrics ensuring that the training they get in the program actually has something to do with the business owner and the business they are working with.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Mr. Ruimy, please.