Human Resources Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2017

[Allan Clarke]

As I mentioned earlier, the First Nations Finance Authority is in the business of raising the financing. It's private sector financing for first nations, based on revenues that the first nations are earning. They securitize their own source of revenues to build homes or infrastructure or other public works on-reserve. Through that, you have the first nation itself, which has the authority and jurisdiction to construct whatever infrastructure or housing development that it is interested in doing.

At the end of the day, first nations need to be able to exercise a level of jurisdiction that is commensurate with performing duties that any local government would carry out. Perhaps not every first nation is going to be in that circumstance, but I think that through some of these more innovative notions, you're going to be able to spread the federal support more broadly and you're going to give those communities that have the ability more innovation in terms of how they can raise their money. The homes that are being built through the finance authority, or financed through the finance authority, are not being built with government money. It's their own sources of revenue that are being securitized to build those things in first nations communities.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Do you have anything to add, Mr. Leclair?

[Daniel Leclair]

I would like to add something to what my colleague Mr. Clarke has just said.

Let me take Shamattawa as an example; we talked about it this week. The community was asking members of the community to pay rent. As Mr. Clarke said, that is part of the solution in better management, not just of the new units, but also the existing ones.

One of the specific issues discussed during the work of the Senate committee was working with the First Nations, the members of the band councils, the chiefs and the councils, in order to ensure that the people on reserve pay rent, which would be used for the upkeep of the housing that already exists.

The needs are so great that additional funding may perhaps not be enough to resolve the situation. So we have to see what we can do in terms of innovation and increasing the number of units, as mentioned in the previous question, as well as in properly training the members of the community, in order not only to get new housing built, but also to have existing housing maintained.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is for Catherine Scott.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Be very brief, please. You have about 45 seconds.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Okay.

You mentioned the preconditions to getting housing as quickly as possible. Can you talk a little bit about these?

[Catherine Scott]

Under the Housing First approach, in fact there are no preconditions. That's what's new about this approach. Previously you would wait until an individual could demonstrate that they were sober, for example, before they would be moved into housing. Under Housing First, the principle is that the individual, whatever state they're in, is placed in housing, and then we address their needs.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Is that temporary housing?

[Catherine Scott]

It could be, in the first stage, transitional housing, but the goal of Housing First is to place that individual in permanent housing.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

So it's transitional and then permanent.

What if their alcohol problem is still present?

[Catherine Scott]

That's where the wraparound services come in. The intensive case management approach is that the individual would have a caseworker who ensures that they get access to any of the services they need and helps them retain their housing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. Excellent.

MP Vecchio is next, please, for five minutes.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much.

First off, in Minister Duclos' mandate letter, there was a request for a list of the federal lands. Has that been formulated, and is it now available to us? What stage is that at?

[Catherine Scott]

As I mentioned in my presentation, we manage the SFRPHI program, the surplus federal real property for homelessness initiative. In that initiative we take properties that become surplus. It's often former national defence housing, for example, or RCMP—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

But is there a list yet available?

[Catherine Scott]

We're working with PSPC and also with CMHC. It's a collaborative approach, building on the SFRPHI approach, to develop that and to develop an approach for a broader program.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Is there a deadline to have that completed?

[Catherine Scott]

I would say over the course of this year.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay. That's not a problem.

Speaking of Housing First, I've seen that strategy, and as a critic, I've heard some really positive feedback on it. Are you looking at expanding the Housing First initiative? I know that right now it's located in 61 communities, but in the smaller, more rural communities, we have a great program that has been set up by the Psychiatric Survivors Network. Are you looking at expanding that program because we've had such success, or what are the plans with that program?

[Catherine Scott]

In terms of the current program, we set requirements for communities to dedicate funds to Housing First only in the larger and mid-sized communities. In more rural or smaller communities, we didn't set those same requirements. Because their funding levels are smaller, the capacity is not always there.

Certainly we have been providing a lot of technical assistance and training for communities that do want to develop a Housing First approach. We have seen many smaller communities that have done it, so that's very positive.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

Moving over to the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, recently we had a fire in Oneida, which is in southwestern Ontario, where I'm from. The chief came out and immediately said that it was the federal government's fault because of the lack of funding.

Are we watching how the money is being spent on housing? How are we making sure that the money that is earmarked for housing is being spent on housing? What do we have in place for that?

[David Smith, Acting Director General, Community Infrastructure, Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

The funding that is allocated to first nation communities is proposal-based funding for a specific project. If there is funding allocated for six housing units, for example, in a first nation community, there needs to be a clear project scope, with deadlines for when deliverables are achieved at certain milestones. Then disbursements are done, and then there's a final inspection for budget 2016 funding.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

When we're looking at specific investments into social housing, do you have data referring to the investment on housing for those with disabilities, housing for seniors, and housing for families? When you're saying that you're investing specifically into targeted groups, do you have any information and data showing that?

[David Smith]

Unfortunately, in 2012 the department went ahead with the reporting burden, and we stopped collecting certain data from first nation communities. This was information that was based on volunteer reporting.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Excellent.

For the rest of the communities across Canada, rather than just specific ones, what kind of data do you have on that for those with disabilities, for seniors, and for low-income families?