Evidence of meeting #38 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Vice-President, Regional Operations and Assisted Housing, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
We do get reports from provinces and territories, because that's where the majority of our funding flows, so I would have to get the breakdown for that. If we have it, I will provide it to the committee.
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
That would be greatly appreciated.
When it comes to transition, that's one of the things I see within my own community. We have people who have been staying in many of these units for 25 years and longer. What are the plans for transitioning out of affordable housing into something better or greater for them? Is there any target that we have for that? How do we try to help those families who are in need?
We find that one of our biggest problems is that the market is expanding because of the number of people who are not leaving those units, and sometimes their income data is not being looked at thoroughly. What would you say to that?
Senior Vice-President, Regional Operations and Assisted Housing, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
At CMHC, we function along the spectrum of housing, from affordable through market and home ownership and apartments and the like, so we're there in all of the places with regard to supply. We'd have to look into the question that you asked as well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
I just want a point of clarification, Mr. Smith. You used the term “reporting burden”. Can you clarify what that means?
Acting Director General, Community Infrastructure, Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes, there was a directive that was given to the department to decrease the amount of reporting—
Acting Director General, Community Infrastructure, Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
—that was requested from first nation communities.
Acting Director General, Community Infrastructure, Regional Operations, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
There was a serious number of reports that were being requested.
Liberal
NDP
Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC
Thank you.
Now I am going to turn to the matter of homelessness.
Ms. Scott, the Housing First program does good work. It helps very vulnerable people who are already living on the street.
But local organizations also working in prevention saw their budgets reduced when it was decided that, in major cities, 60% of the budget for the Homelessness Partnering Strategy, or HPS, would be invested in the Housing First approach. As I am sure you know, in Quebec, we have been asking for some time for the people working in the streets, the people who know the conditions and the possible solutions, to be allowed to choose which approach to use.
I would like to know if we can expect the CMHC to allow a choice of approach, either the generalist approach or the Housing First approach, according to the needs on the ground.
Earlier, you mentioned a committee that would be studying the HPS in general. Is that one of the things you are going to look at?
Director General, Community Development and Homelessness Partnerships Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
At the committee, yes, absolutely. One of the objectives is specifically to consider the Housing First approach and to determine to what extent it is working on the ground. We can also examine the way in which the funds are allocated to various approaches. I would say that the examination will be done in the coming year.
NDP
Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC
Could that be made part of the housing strategy or will it be too late to do that?
Director General, Community Development and Homelessness Partnerships Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
We are expecting the HPS program to be renewed, starting in 2019. So we will be examining those questions in the coming year.
As for current investments in the program, I am sure you know that we have an agreement with the Government of Quebec governing the investments in that province.
Director General, Community Development and Homelessness Partnerships Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
The two governments agree on the priorities for the investments.
NDP
Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC
Yes, the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development, Mr. Duclos talked to me about it already. Thank you.
Now I would like to talk about long-term agreements that have expired. There was an amount of $30 million invested over two years in order to maintain rental subsidies, but it covered only a part of the agreements. It was also temporary and there was no provision for agreements that had expired.
According to your estimates, how many housing units should be built in order to genuinely eliminate waiting lists? In Montreal alone, there are 20,000 people on a waiting list for social housing.
What are we going to do to make sure that people do not have to choose between paying their rent and paying for groceries? What are we going to do for people who have already lost their subsidies? At the moment, there is nothing.
Senior Vice-President, Policy, Research and Public Affairs, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
The national housing strategy is not fully developed yet. As I mentioned, we want to assure you that the national housing strategy will target the people in greatest need. We expect there to be a wide variety of initiatives to try and achieve those results. At the moment, I have no further details about waiting lists and the way in which we might be able to manage them.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you very much.
We're going to start into a second round. We're back to six minutes, and first up is MP Poilievre.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
The Fraser Institute did an analysis on the cost of red tape in the original construction of housing, and it showed that in Hamilton the cost is $21,000 per home build. In Oakville it's $60,000, and in Toronto it's $46,000.
Of course, 100% of these costs are passed on to the home buyer, because the builder is not in the business of providing housing at a loss. Is Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation tracking these costs and taking them into consideration when it receives requests for funding from particular municipalities for housing?
Senior Vice-President, Regional Operations and Assisted Housing, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
The vast majority of the funding flows through the provinces and territories, and therefore the majority of the requests for funding come through the provinces and the territories, and they look at the need in the particular community for affordable housing. I would assume that they're making choices based on what the greatest need is in their communities, as they're the ones who design and deliver the programs.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I'm not looking for the need.
The municipalities have said that housing is a federal responsibility by virtue of their requests for federal tax dollars, and of course the federal government is responsible for federal tax dollars. If the growing and unsustainable increases in the costs of housing are in part attributed to red tape and deliberate decisions to delay construction by municipal governments, the federal government, which is funding those delays through your programming, ought to take an interest in it.
Senior Vice-President, Regional Operations and Assisted Housing, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
We have an interest in it, an interest in getting buildings built faster and making sure that they're built efficiently. We're very interested in that, and all orders of government have a role in that. I think municipal governments have a significant interest in it, and they have to do their part as well.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
So is there any plan, then, to track those costs and those delays?