Human Resources Committee on Feb. 7th, 2017

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

What condition were they in compared to the 84 other communities that were already receiving it?

[Stephen Van Dine]

We had been receiving representations from different regions of the country that were not included in the program at the time. Northern Ontario, northern Manitoba, in particular, were making representations to be included. It's still early days. The program started in October. Our data is still coming in. The anecdotal information that we are receiving is that communities are seeing a benefit to the program applying to them and seeing lower prices.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Okay, but because they were neglected, could you say that between 2010 and at least 2014 the members of that community were in worse shape than were the 84 others who were getting money?

[Stephen Van Dine]

We don't have the data to determine that level of precision. What I can say with great confidence is that we found ourselves in situations in which, for many objective measures, with communities that were, roughly, next door to one another, one would get the program and the other would not. There was a strong desire to correct that situation, and we received many requests to revisit and address that issue. The demand was there. In terms of the actual wellness of the community as a result of one or the other, I don't have the specific number.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

For things like malnutrition or—

[Stephen Van Dine]

I don't have that information today.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

You also mentioned that the cost of food is still too high. Can you explain a little bit why?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Could we have a very brief answer, please?

[Stephen Van Dine]

The cost of living is 10 times higher for most things in the north. Groceries are one of those cost elements.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We go now to Mr. Ruimy

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

I'm going to focus my questions today on Mr. Moore with Infrastructure Canada.

Very quickly, could you outline how the government's infrastructure funding can be used to target those who are living in poverty?

[Jeff Moore]

I think there are many ways we could do that. Budget 2016 announced funding for public transit in the amount of about $3.4 billion. Public transit is very key for people to move around, for mobility purposes, to get access to educational services, health services, etc. Having access to reliable transit is key, I think, to people who are living in poverty, people who can't afford to own their own vehicle. They rely quite a bit on public transit systems that are reliable. From that perspective, we use the funding through public transit to ensure that we're modernizing the systems that are in place, particularly through budget 2016, as well as rehabilitating fleets and rehabilitating systems to make sure that they're operating efficiently and that they're operating on time.

Another example I could give you is under social infrastructure. Actually, I'll pause on social infrastructure, but I'll come back to it.

On the indigenous front, as I mentioned in other answers, we're going to be investing quite a bit in indigenous communities, whether in core municipal services like water and wastewater and solid management or early learning and child care, which are critical for people who are in poverty situations.

There are many, many examples. I could probably go on for about an hour in terms of that.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

No, don't. I don't have that much time.

Moving along on that same theme now, I know some of the challenges that municipalities face. The money goes to the province, and the province determines the priorities. Is there anything in your procedures that can give a little bit more weight to the municipalities, to help them access some of those funds rather than letting the province make all those decisions? A lot of the time big funding goes to bigger cities, and the smaller cities don't get anything. For new cities like my riding, it's tough because we're just not big enough, so how does Infrastructure Canada try to compensate for that?

[Jeff Moore]

It's a very good question. Thank you for that.

As you correctly pointed out, normally through our programs, we would negotiate bilateral agreements with provinces and territories. Once those agreements are in place, we rely on them to prioritize projects for our consideration. When those projects come in, we do our best to ensure that there is a balance with respect to the types of municipalities that are being supported through our programs.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

How much weight does your department actually have? Can it actually tell the province, “This money should be earmarked for that project”? Can it do that or not?

[Jeff Moore]

We don't have that as a basis in our criteria. As I said, we have lists of projects, and when the projects come in, we will actually look at what the distribution looks like in a particular province. If there does seem to be an imbalance, we'll try to encourage provinces and territories to look at other opportunities as well, if that's possible.

Again, at the end of the day, it's important to note that the process is that we really do rely on provinces and territories to tell us what the priorities are. We hope, through processes like capital planning, which occurs at the municipal level and through the capital planning that occurs at the provincial levels, that opportunities will make themselves available to support those types of communities.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Let's say I'm in a small municipality. We know that with FCM, with all of the government, we're talking about more collaboration with the municipalities, but they lack that one piece. So, if I'm in a municipality—I'm mayor of my little town here—and I want to be able to access something because I need to build low-income housing, for instance, how can I go out and get the funds for that? Do I have to go through the province? Can I go straight to the infrastructure bank? What's the procedure for me to be able to help my city?

[Jeff Moore]

It depends on the program. As for the infrastructure bank, it's too early to tell how that's going to function. As I said, the primary vehicle for programs managed within Infrastructure Canada is through the priority-setting process that the provinces and territories have in place. I can't speak to other departments on how they manage their funds. For example, CMHC has its own agreements in place for affordable housing initiative. I'm not quite sure what the processes are there; we'd have to talk to CMHC.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

You said that it's too soon to tell for the infrastructure bank. Is that because the policies haven't been set?

[Jeff Moore]

Yes, exactly. What I can tell you is that, through existing programming, we do have the small communities fund and a national building program. There's funding that can be accessed there for small municipalities. As we move to phase two, if you look to the fall economic statement that the government put out, there is going to be money set aside for rural and northern communities as well, which should address some of those policy issues.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I come back to the small communities fund. That's a perfect example of where a project should be approved, but is not within the province's priorities and, therefore, doesn't get executed. Even though it's a challenge and it needs to get done, there's a problem there. This is a problem that we have, and it's great that we have all this money out there, but the people who really need to do it are the municipalities, and they are the ones who are struggling to get their hands on it. When we make our recommendations to the federal government, how can we try to improve that situation?

[Jeff Moore]

We've been consulting with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities on this and it probably require more consultations. We're always in constant dialogue with them. We do have some interesting programs in place with the FCM. I alluded to them in my opening remarks. A great example is the money we're investing in asset management through the FCM. The hypothesis is that if you invest in asset management at the municipal level, they will have a better understanding in terms of where some of their infrastructure needs are and will prioritize what needs to be rehabilitated, where they need to invest in the new asset. By investing more in asset management, they get more of a sense of what their infrastructure needs are, and they are able to better prioritize what projects need to be funded at the local level. I think that puts them in a stronger position with respect to discussions with provinces and territories regarding priority projects that need to come forward. I think that's a critical piece of work that needs to be done through the FCM, and we'll continue to support them. I think we need to do more of that. I think we need to invest more in capacity building in small communities. Asset management is just one aspect that is really going to help from a planning perspective. We also need to continue with our approach—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Sir, we're way over on this. I'm sorry. I let you go on for a bit there, but hopefully we can come back to you and finish that thought. Over to Mr. Zimmer, please.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you for coming to the committee.

It's good to be back.

My questions will be for the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. Homes on reserve is the theme that I'm thinking about because when I think of a home, I think of my own home. I look at it that it should be the same way for aboriginal peoples; they should feel at home on reserve.

I want to ask a few specifics about what is spent and whether it is value for dollars, etc. The most recent stat I have—this is a 2011 stat, so it's a bit dated, but that's the best we have—is that the number of aboriginal people in Canada who live on reserve is 314,367. That's what I have here. What is the mandate of aboriginal affairs when it comes to providing housing for aboriginal people on reserve? Please make it as succinct a response as you can.